On the Siege-Wing

Next post gets prompted by a comment in the post on Vindicators a few days back; a request for thoughts on 'Siegewing.'

Siege-wing is a Dark Angel build that involves filling your heavy support slots with Vindicators, and takes Deathwing Terminators as troops. Since this is a fairly specific list request, I'm going to go through a step-by-step process as I 'build' it out, and explain the logic and use of the pieces.

The Build Process
Well, since we are DA Deathwing, we have to take Belial (130 points), and I figure you might as well give him Lightning Claws and use that high initiative to maybe gut some troops and crank out a decent number of attacks.

Then, we're taking a minimum of two Deathwing terminator squads. They start at 215, and the assault cannon is, frankly, a decent choice of weapons. Walking troops don't get to use flamers by default (...please, tell me someone that will LET you walk up and use them) and the Cyclone launcher is...eh. (If/when DA ever get updated to have the 2-shot regular missile launcher for it, you drop the assault cannon like a bad habit). Then, we grab a chainfist to at least worry heavy armor.

The Core
So, our start is:
Belial [130]
DW Termies w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]
DW Termies w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]

Total: 630

Core Expansion: Theme Set
We then promptly add three Vindicators with Dozer Blades; 130 each. Let's also add a third terminator squad, just to have a decent number of troops in there.

So, we have:

Belial [130]
DW Termies w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]
DW Termies w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]
DW Termies w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade [130]
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade [130]
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade [130]

Total: 1270

Fleshing Out Capabilities
We have three troops choices (that are at least fearless), and three Vindicators. The Vindies can do some lifting for vehicle-killing, but share the same range issues as our terminators. So, we'll look to Dreadnoughts to bring in some longer-ranged punch. Since we have enough high-strength attacks available in the army, we can readily get a missile launcher on the dreadnought. From there, our 'free' heavy weapon choices are:

Twin-linked autocannon
Heavy Bolter
Assault Cannon
Multi-melta

Or, a TL Lascannon for +20 points.

I'm going to back the autocannon, here. Why? Range is one of them. You want to try to stop transports and harass smaller, faster units from as far away as possible. The autocannon does this for you. The lascannon shares the range, but cannot then be used against infantry that well, and frankly you're looking to Vindicators or Chainfists to handle heavier armor.

So, I'd go for the 135 TL Autocannon/Missile Launcher Dreadnought.

Belial [130]
Dreadnought w/ TL Autocannon, Missile Launcher [135]
Dreadnought w/ TL Autocannon, Missile Launcher [135]
Dreadnought w/ TL Autocannon, Missile Launcher [135]
DW Termies w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]
DW Termies w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]
DW Termies w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade [130]
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade [130]
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade [130]

Total: 1675/2000

The Remainder
We have 325 points to play with. Not bad, right? Not bad. What do we have in terms of capabilities?

Light/medium long-range anti-armor (Dreadnoughts)
Fearless Shooty/semi-decent CC troops (Terminators)
BFGs on wheels (Vindicators)

Here's a brainstorm for you: a home-base scoring squad that helps give us more armor, and contributes a little long-ranged firepower:

5 Man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer [95]
Razorback w/ TL Lascannon [80]

It doesn't really move. The enemy has to spend long-range anti-tank weapons to STOP the thing, and the enemy has to worry about three AV13/11/10 guys closing, 16 terminators, and three dreadnoughts pouring on the support fire.

This puts us to 1850. We have an HQ slot open, two troops slots, and three fast attack slots.

I would propose two choices:
1) Two MM/HF speeders (75 points each; 2000 on the dot)
2) DH Inquisitor Lord w/ Hood, Emperor's Tarot, Auspex
2 Heavy Bolter Servitors
3 Mystics
[15o]

The MM/HF speeders keep it pure-ish Deathwing (at least pure Dark Angels), and give the enemy some more immediate threats. The Inquisitor Lord can help you get first turn (and that important 12" move + Smoke) and if anyone Deep Strikes, well, you have an S10, AP2 surprise for them. Technically there is fire support as well, with a couple of Heavy Bolters.

Personally, I kind of lean towards the latter.

For You Purists
If you are not a fan of the Razorback score squad, I would consider still adding more troops. In a sense, a 5-man power-armored Grey Knight psycannon squad isn't a bad score-camper at range. However, they do cost you 200 points. Hopefully the enemy has other places to look.

Otherwise, you're pretty much committing to another DW Terminator Squad (250) and leaving yourself with 75 points. I would seriously consider shaving some points to add a Grey Knight Brother-Captain with Psychic Hood (81 points). At LEAST get that psychic hood in your army. Drop a missile launcher off a Dreadnought or something. Make that fourth DW Squad a Cyclone Missile Launcher and sit it at your home objective or something.

If you are really, really pure and want to stick to the DW 'dex, then you're going with a MM/HF speeder, because that's what you have points for.

Suggested List: Siege-Wing with Inquisitorial Allies
HQ
Belial w/ Lightning Claws [130]

Inquisitor Lord w/ Psychic Hood, Emperor's Tarot, Auspex [150]
-2 Heavy Bolter Servitors
-3 Mystics

Elites
Dreadnought w/ Missle Launcher, TL Autocannon [135]

Dreadnought w/ Missle Launcher, TL Autocannon [135]

Dreadnought w/ Missle Launcher, TL Autocannon [135]

Troops
DW Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]

DW Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]

DW Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist [250]

5-man Tactical Squad w/ Flamer [95]
Razorback w/ TL Lascannon [80]

Heavy Support
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade [130]

Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade [130]

Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade [130]

Total: 2000/2000

The Logic
Advance Terminators up the field BEHIND the Vindicators. Vindicators scare things, draw fire. Dreadoughts and TL Las-Back prioritize targets that can kill Vindicators/Terminators and the enemy's mobility. Vindicators prioritize heavy armor. Terminators use assault cannons on lighter armor as it permits (more fun if you can open up shooting gaps in between vindicator flanks for assault cannon shots) and punch out tanks/non-assaulty infantry.

Note that since terminators have a 2+ armor save, but only a 5+ invulnerable, you can lose terminators to more dedicated melee troops. A few guys with decent-strength power weapons at initiative can and will make hash browns out of an expensive terminator squad, so be aware of that and prioritize accordingly.

The Inquisitor's tarot helps you get first turn, and his hood helps keep psychic powers off you. If you want, you could skip the heavy bolter servitors but I am not entirely sure what you would do with the points saved. I mean, it's 50 points in an army that spends points in large chunks.

List Pros
Decent mobility/mechanization. If you go first, you push Vindicators up and run Terminators behind them. You have decent long-range power, and decent infantry. Your forward scoring troops are Fearless; your rear-echelon guys are in a vehicle. You have psychic defenses that aren't bad, either; a Ld10 hood is almost as effective as a Rune Priest's Rune Staff (but without the pesky 24" range), but not quite as nasty as Runes of Warding.

You laugh at monstrous creatures, because of powerfists and a decent amount of high-strength shooting.

You have old-school 'glance only' smoke on your vehicles.

List Cons
You're bringing Vindicators, which are nasty, BUT also a lot more frightening then they are effective. Additionally, if the Vindicators go down or have bad shots, you're in trouble, since you're relying on them to do some of the scaring.

Terminators are, as I mentioned, not the highest-end melee troops. Higher-initiative power weapons can do nasty things to your 250pt squads. Vindicators also have to be wary of accidentally scattering onto your terminators, and I feel that's a major concern with the Siege-Wing list: you can quite accidentally help out your opponent with careless deployment/shooting and just plain bad dice on the Demolisher Cannons.

Other than terminators as troops, you're still rolling with the Dark Angel codex, which does kind of hurt your options. Compare this list to the vanilla Space Marine list at the end of the Vindi Post and...yeah. You're just shorter on options.

Model count is...decent.

Ultimately, though, if Siege-Wing is what you want, I think this is a decent enough list. I'm not sure Siege-Wing is necessarily upper-tier in terms of armies, but what the hell.

What happens when you have a heap of terminators...

And suddenly, two options for an army: Logan-Wing, and the DA Deathwing.

It's been a while since I touched those hefty Terminators I've been modding extensively. So now, I'm going to get down to brass tacs on which army I want. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm going to have to play the army.

I may very well use Logan Grimnar's stand-in in another army, so my paint scheme will have an eye towards that. So, I'm going to set out and analyze the units side-by-side, and in terms of army-wide capabilities.

HQ: Belial vs. Grimnar
Cost
Belial's half the price; 130 vs. Logan's 275. However, Logan has some hefty abilities.
Shooting
BS5 storm bolter, or BS5 storm bolter, or nothing for Belial. Not really THAT important, truthfully.
Melee capability
Belial loses here. always worse invulnerable save, and generally run with lightning claws. Logan can match lightning claws with an S5 power weapon, though against T3-4 targets the claws are a little better. Against bigger targets, Logan gets a powerfist. Belial...does not.
Extras
Logan wins. Eternal Warrior's a huge help. 4+ invulernable vs Belials 5+. Always hits on melee on 3+. Grants his unit a neat extra special rule? Yeah.

Belial's the bargain version, while Logan is a heftier performer all around if you'll pay for the extras. It does, of course, cut into what else you can bring in the army. Belial does give you access to an Apothecary that negates a wound a turn, but that apothecary is another 40 points.

HQ: Rune Priest vs Librarian
Cost
145 base for the Libby, 120 base for the Rune Priest, assuming terminator armor.
Powers
A flamer and an invulnerable save, or an unlimited range autocannon + something that slows the enemy down? I think I'd rather the priest.
Psychic Defense
Ld9 hood, or a straight nullify on 4+? I'll stick with the Priest.
Overall
Rune priest, hands down. He's more reliable psychic defense, and has better powers.

Basic Terminators
Basic Loadout
Deathwing: 5 guys with storm bolters, 1 power weapon, 4 fists, Fearless: 215 points.
Wolf Guard: 5 guys with power weapon and storm bolters: 165

Unit Size
Flexibility in the Logan-wing. Not so much in the Deathwing.

Fearless vs. Morale
Well, you'll never have a bad dice day and watch Deathwing run. On the other hand, Ld9 across the board, and some Ld10 with Logan and maybe a priest? Logan-wing is open to

CC:
Deathwing may take lightning claws for no extra charge, granting them more I4 attacks. Swing for swing, powerfists are obviously more likely to make things go away. However, power weapons go at I4, and while they aren't as killy, you may KO slower troops and reduce the number of attacks coming back at you.

So, Deathwing is slower, but more killy, in CC. However, you can support your Wolves with, y'know, Lone Wolves for hunting the bigger game.

Wolves may also take Frost Blades or Wolf Claws. For 5 points, your power weapon now re-rolls hits or wounds. Make the most of that initative. Frost Blades are 10pts for S5 power weapons, which aren't as good against rank-and-file as Wolf Claws but are a bit nastier against tougher targets.

Overall, it's a tough call. Give Loganwing some upgrades and a chainfist, though, and it's probably 'good enough' once you factor in some Lone Wolves for trying to tag Dreadnoughts and/or monstrous creatures.

Shooting
A storm bolter is a storm bolter, yes? It shoots bolt rounds. However, Wolf Guard can take combi-bolters. This opens up a variety of options for them, but mostly it means you could drop 5 to mimic the function of a heavy flamer without actually taking up a heavy weapon slot. There's melta, but you should probably find other ways to solve armor problems. On the other hand, 10 points for two combi-meltas? Not necessarily a bad investment.

Heavy Weapons
Wolves win this one. To be honest, a Heavy 2 cyclone missile launcher with a 48" range is excellent at hunting lighter transports. Compared to that, an assault cannon's 24" range is just 'eh'. Rob the enemy of their mobility, and then walk over to 'em and say 'hi'.

This is, honestly, a major advantage for Logan-Wing.

Support Elements
As a rule, the other SW options are cheaper than their counterparts, and their landspeeders can deep strike. Advantage: SW.

The only real advantage DA have is in cheaper Venerable Dreadnoughts, but they have fewer long-range options and the basic dreadought will cost more.

Deep Strike
Deathwing can, Loganwing need drop pods. However, if you're going pure-foot? Why would you worry about deep striking so much? It cuts down on the number of guys you have, which means more fire on fewer 2+ saves. Deathwing just don't have to pay for the pods, but still have to worry about how many troops they reserve.

Personally? I don't really care about the deep-striking thing.

Overall
For me? The Logan-wing have better psychic defenses, and better long-ranged weapons. Considering that the major problem with a pure-termy army is the enemy's mobility, Logan-wing is more likely to deny enemy mobility than Deathwing. The CC is fairly close in most cases, and Logan-wing can 'cope' more or less.

Current Draft
HQ
Logan Grimnar [275]

Rune Priest [130]
-Terminator Armor
-Chooser of the Slain
-Living Lightning, Tempest's Wrath

Elites
Lone Wolf [85]
-Terminator Armor
-Chain Fist
-Storm Shield

Lone Wolf [85]
-Terminator Armor
-Chain Fist
-Storm Shield

Lone Wolf [85]
-Terminator Armor
-Chain Fist
-Storm Shield

Troops
10 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor [430]
-2 Cyclone Missile Launchers
-2 Chainfist
-2 Wolf Claws

5 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor [220]
-Cyclone Missile Launcher
-Chainfist
-2 Wolf Claws

5 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor [220]
-Cyclone Missile Launcher
-Chainfist
-2 Wolf Claws

5 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor [220]
-Cyclone Missile Launcher
-Chainfist
-2 Wolf Claws

3 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor [99]

Total: 1849/1850

The 10-man squad is there to take advantage of Logan's ability to hand out Tank Hunters; you get four S9 missiles and 1d6 S8 living lightning shots. Aw, yeah.

The three 5-man squads are basic workhorse squads; they can take out tanks if needed, but are fine for cracking open the troopers inside.

The Lone Wolves are problem-solves; it's the list's way of dealing with dreadnoughts and monstrous creatures.

The 3-man squad is called 'I'm not sure what to do with the last 100 points', or called 'you guys sit on an objective out of LOS.'

Total? 33 terminators.

On the Wolf-Wing

Blame this one on Chumbalaya. He got me thinking about it, since if we're going to do Logan-wing, we do it with an eye towards the strengths of the Space Wolves.

With that in mind, I'll walk you through what I've got, with the aim of building a, 1850 list.

Headquarters
Let's start with Logan Grimnar. We kind of have to. He's 275 points off the bat.

Then, let's get a Rune Priest. Psychic Defense IS your friend, and Chooser of the Slain is occasionally a neat piece of kit.

So, we add a Rune Priest w/ Terminator Armor and a Chooser of the Slain. 130 points.

We could get two more choices, but that's probably not really necessary.

Troops
A basic 5-man, heavy-weapon-enabled squad costs us 165 points. We're going to go ahead and add a Cyclone Missile Launcher, to let us get lighter armor at range. 195. Grab a just-in-case chainfist. 210.

Now, let's take 5 of them for a footslogging wing. 5(210) + 275 + 130 = 1455.

Elites
Well...one thing we're missing is the powerfists. Ok. We can try to give everyone a fist; I'm not sure that's a great idea. Let's take Lone Wolves in Terminator Armor with Chainfists and Storm Shields. If the enemy wants to drop our anti-dreads and anti-MC cards, it'll take some serious firepower. I think I'm fine with making the enemy make a decision.

3(85) = 255. Army total, 1710. We have 5x5 Termie Squads, Logan, and psychic defense. We have 140 points remaining.

I think you can go one of three ways here:
1) buy a few more terminators
2) gear up our terminators a bit more
3) buy a pair of MM/HF landspeeders
4) Or, we could re-tool the heavy weapons and go for Drop Pod Wing or something like that.

However, I'm not entirely sure how effective drop pod deathwing would be. But, what the hell. We'd have to drop the Lone Wolves, since they just won't fit. I might break off the idea of 100% terminators to mostly terminators just to make it work a little better. At least we can pass out combi-weapons in the Wolf Guard.

But, here's what the basic list looks like:

Basic Logan-Wing, Foot, 1850
HQ
Logan Grimnar [275]
Rune Priest, Terminator Armor, Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning Tempest's Wrath [130]
Elites
Lone Wolf in Termie Armor w/ Chainfist, Storm Shield [85]
Lone Wolf in Termie Armor w/ Chainfist, Storm Shield [85]
Lone Wolf in Termie Armor w/ Chainfist, Storm Shield [85]
Troops
5 Wolf Guard, Termie Armor, Chainfist, Cyclone Missile Launcher [210]
5 Wolf Guard, Termie Armor, Chainfist, Cyclone Missile Launcher [210]
5 Wolf Guard, Termie Armor, Chainfist, Cyclone Missile Launcher [210]
5 Wolf Guard, Termie Armor, Chainfist, Cyclone Missile Launcher [210]
5 Wolf Guard, Termie Armor, Chainfist, Cyclone Missile Launcher [210]

Total: 1710/1850

We could hand out Frost Blades and a pair of combi-meltas to each squad, and that'd put us to 1810. Still 40 points to soak. This would give us a little bit of armor-killing power at point-blank range if we need it, and a little more CC power.

I suppose we could also just roll with the two MM/HF speeders in lieu of all the extras, and just deep-strike them. It makes things a bit simpler, and gives us a 'suprise!' card against heavy armor and/or hordes.

On Logan-Wing in Drop Pods
I'm not going to go in-depth on it, but a few notes:
1) 1-2 squads will be shorted to 4 troops if we want to drop-pod Logan and the Rune Priest in pods. This will cost us heavy weapons in those squads.
2) I'm not so sure we need cyclone missile launchers any more.
3) Range. We still want some.

I would consider the basic drop-podding squad something like:
4 combi-melta
Heavy Flamer
Chainfist
Total: 195 + drop pod.

Basic capabilities are in.

If we want to solve range problems, I'll throw out an alternative solution:
Logan + Lascannon Long Fangs. If you don't go first, hide out of LOS, then Relentless into LOS and start shooting stuff. 6 Fangs with 5 Lascannons runs 215. It's a costly chunk, but it lets us try to gimp mech before it can run away from our guys. 5 S10 Lascannons can usually wreck some things, and if it's overkill we can split the fire.

Figured I'd through that out.

Deathwing and Ally Thoughts, bit o' news

I'll wrap up my thoughts on the Deathwing's ally options, and make it the third (and probably last) article on the theme.

First, though, good news on my front: employment's finally here. On the bright side, it means I now have a two-way cash flow, and can afford new models. I mean, my opponents know that my Tau battlesuits have looked a whole lot like Eldar jetbikes, for example...

On the downside, combined with grad school this semester it means less time in the hobby, so there might be a little less blog posting. Eh, it's life. On to what you came here for, though: The Deathwing.

Allies Roundup
Now, part of the issue of taking allies is that it's points not spent on the Deathwing. This should be obvious, but it bears mentioning: the more you spend on allies, the less you're spending on Deathwing-only options.

With that in mind, the goal of allies is to bring something you can't get otherwise with Deathwing options. Here are some things you simply cannot take with just Deathwing troops, and/or even Dark Angel Space Marines.

1) 2x Melta in a troops selection, or even readily delivered
-ISTs out of either codex
-Sisters of Battle as troops
-Sister Fast Attack troopers

2) Psychic Defense (a Ld9 hood does NOT cut it, nor does Ezekial
-SoB Inquisitor
-DH Inquisitor
-Grey Knight Hero

3) Better odds at turn one
-DH Inquisitor with Tarot

4) Deep Strike Defense
-DH Inquisitor w/ Mystics

5) More Armor
-Rhinos (either side)
-Immolators (max of 2, from SoB Elite and Fast Attack selections)
-Chimeras (either, if a bit pricy)
(Note all the armor here is like yours with the smoke launchers; glance-only. Aw, Yeah)

6) Power Weapons that strike at initiative
-Grey Knight Terminators. (Mmm, S6 power weapons)

Honest Appraisal of Allies
I have to favor the Daemonhunters codex for allies. You get the same ISTs, but you get an Inquisitor with better options. (Note: I'm talking about the HQ inquisitors, not the piddly elites. However, in a pinch, you can get an elite DH inquisitor with Tarot for 35. Minimal commitment! Maybe spare him 2 points for pistol/ccw for some love...)

The real big thing from the allies is the psychic defense. There are some powers that aren't that frightening, but Lash + Oblits = Dead Terminators, and since we want to make Termiantors effective...yeah. At a minimum, I would think long and hard about dropping the 167 for Hood/Tarot Lord, 3 Heavy Bolters, and 2 sages. It's cheap, and it brings an amazing amount of utility for the cost.

The second consideration would be melta troopers. 128 gets you 5 interpeid, sacrifical storm troopers with meltaguns and a kitted out Rhino. If you want to commit to more AV12, you can get Chimeras, but I would have to test and see whether I feel like more AV12 is worth the cost.

If you check out the sample lists in my other posts, you'll note they include 2 Dreads, 2 Chimeras, and 2 Predators. That way there's four AV12 units, and two AV13 units. All the AV12 can threaten you with melta, and the AV13 can threaten the lighter armor at range. My gut suggests that if the enemy could KO your meltagun transports (and it's not that hard to drop 5 guys with T3 and a 4+). I'd lean towards Rhinos for Sisters, or Chimeras for the guardsmen. The Sisters are a bit more likely to survive on their own, with decent leadership, numbers, and power armor.

At any rate, the main goal is to help your terminators get to the meaty insides, or in a pinch beat down the vehicles that survived. Plus, they'll be durable.

Much more than the basics, and you're cutting into your Troops/Terminator budget. This means unless you're going for Grey Knight Termies with the hood, or a Grand Master, you should probably skip them. Admittedly, a Grand Master with the old-school 'lose all your wounds' Force Weapon can do some serious damage to whatever you point it at, and he gets you the Ld10 hood.

Ally Recommendations
5-man IST teams with 2x melta, probably in a Chimera [155]
10-man, 2-melta Sister team; Sister Superior w/ Book of St. Lucius in a Rhino [207]
OH Lord w/ 3x HB, Chururigeon, Hood [152]
DH Lord w/ 3x HB, 2x Mystics, Tarot, Hood [167]

Totals
The basic Deathwing loadout is 630 for Belial, and two DW squads with assault cannons and chainfists. Add in 167 for a DH Inquisitor Lord, and you've got plenty of slots left, and you've spent 797. With the 300-360 on melta allies, you're moving towards an armored build that's around 1,000 points; there's plenty of room to get some backup.

I feel like, overall, it's a reasonably strong build. Is it perfect? No. You're using a marine codex that's been obsoleted by the newer one, and ultimately it's a theme build with Terminators, which has its own problems. However, I think you can get some serious mileage out of the allies. I think it's worth it, and I think I've talked myself into rolling with allies at this point.

Deathwing Allies: Daemonhunters

This time around, I'll focus on the Daemonhunters and what they can bring your Deathwing. I've covered the Witch Hunters ally options already. Some of these options are duplicates, and as such I'll gloss over them, especially if they weren't worth mentioning.

Ally Rules

0-1 HQ
0-1 Elites
0-2 Troops
0-1 Fast Attack

That's what you get in total, per the ally rules. We're going to focus on what the allies can bring that actually helps the Deathwing. Let's start it off with the Leaders.

HQ
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord
This one's much like the Witch Hunter; the chief difference lies in options available to them. Most of the henchmen are the same, and the unit's role should be to sit back and shoot. However, there are a few notable exceptions.

1) Emperor's Tarot. 15 points to almost always get a +1 to go first. Since there still is a roll to go first, this is a sweet piece of it.

2) The Mystic henchman. Get yourself an anti-deep-strike bubble. Bring two of these guys, and you can hand the shots off to the target most capable of KO'ing the deep striking enemy. If you're playing someone that brought Drop Pods and such, a pair of these henchmen can seriously ruin their plans.

3) The Psycannon. Ok, this is actually the least of what you get, but it means the OM lord himself can bring some shooting to the table. It's three more S6 shots, though these ignore invulnerable saves.

Past that, the main reason to bring one is for the Ld10 unlimited range psychic hood. If you're playing against Daemons, then Sanctuary is a bullshit auto-win psychic power in Capture The Flag, because you can cluster your unit and a troops choices around your objective, and go to town on his. This may get you punched in the balls, though. Past that, there's really no psychic power to hand off to the Lord.

A sample loadout, then, would be:
Lord w/ Hood, Emperor's Tarot
3x Heavy Bolter Servitors
2 Mystics
Total: 167

You get psychics, and a firebase. For another 30 points, you get another gun. You can also get multi-melt and/or a single plasma cannon, but I think it's best to keep the guys cheap, and heavy bolters get you the range you want. If you feel like it, jack the cost up by another 20 to get that plasma cannon, and really discourage deep-striking troops. Yeah, they call it 'cluster' formation only for short...

Grey Knight Hero
He comes in two flavors: 61 points for one wound, or 145 for three wounds and upgrading his weapon to a force weapon. As it stands, these guys have a storm bolter, a WS5, S6 Power weapon, and, oh, Terminator Armor. You also get the neat Grey Knight special powers that annoy daemons and make them tough to see, but you only get those on full Grey Knight units.

The Brother-Captain is 81 points for a cheap Ld10 psychic hood, and if you give him a psycannon and sit him back, he's 111 points for a hood and a 36" sniper. You can take him into melee, sure, but there's still the very real issue of rolling a '1' on your armor save, and that's sad.

If you really want the melee badass, it's 165 to get the Ld10 hood on the Grand Master. Yeah, the Grand Master is uber-hoss in melee, but he's still got the issue of 2+/5+ saves, and he's quite vulnerable to instant death. There's no real fix for that beyond giving him a retinue. With himself, the hood, and a minimal retinue? You're looking at a 300pt outlay. Granted, you have the Shrouding to take advantage of, but that's...still a lot of points in a list that's already points-intensive.

Hammerhand is about the only power I'd ever consider giving these guys, but in truth there's plenty of S8 punching against vehicles.

They can also take a Retinue of Gray Knight Terminators, but we'll discuss these guys in the elites section.

Elites
Elite Inquisitor
Remember the WH evaluation? Goes here, too. Skip it, unless you really want to get the Tarot in your army for cheap, in which case he's 35 points, and hoping no one kills him. Mm, juicy KP...

Assassins
You have the same assassin options as the WH codex. I still have the same opinion of them: not really enough oomph to justify investing in both the assassin AND the requisite Inquisitor Lord; it's just not helping your model count and that's what you really want.

Grey Knight Terminators
One brother captain and 2-9 terminators. Bro-Cap is 61 points; each terminator is 45. What do you get? WS5, I4, S6 power weapons, that's what. Oh, and more BS4 storm bolters with psycannon options, and the Shrouding. (Which, for the record, is that you must roll 3d6 * 3 to 'see' the GKT.) They also have a Psychic Hood against any target that hits them, but only them. You still have to (and really ought to) give the Bro-Cap a hood if you don't have on in the army already.

You could theoretically get two squads of these guys, but to be honest I think I'd draw the line at one. They're nasty, but the main reason you'd want to bring them is to give yourself some at-initative S6 power weapons. They're nasty, but if you really want to take a lot you ought to look into a pure Daemonhunters force.

A basic 5-man team will set you back 241. 261 if you use it for a hood. 291 if you hand 'em a couple psycannons, and 311 if you want the hood and guns.

Troops
Grey Knights
Hey, it's more guys with Storm Bolters. To be honest, I see use for one squad of these if you want a camping unit. You take a minimal 5-man squad, hand it two psycannons, and let it camp on an objective that's ideally near the edge of the table. You play shrouding for all it's worth, and hope you don't move. Sure, you CAN fire the Psycannon from the hip, but it's cut to 18" for these blokes.

GKT Campers: 5-man team w/ 2 psycannon comes to 200 points. Yeah, that's right. Same price as your regular terminators, but in power armor. At least the enemy has to check to spot them, and if they're hugging that 36" range, well...it's a little under a 50/50 shot the enemy can spot 'em.

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
Pretty much the same as the WH version. These are you cheap melta unit. They can get Rhinos or Chimeras, and the choice depends on the utility you want out of the transport. You want a cheap box to put them in, or one that's got a little firepower?

70 points for the minimal 5 w/ 2 meltas.
58 for a Rhino with extra armor and smoke
88 for a Chimera with multi-laser, flamer, and smoke.

Fast Attack
You have one option for fast attack: Grey Knights with a deep strike option. There's no reason to ever take this. The whole point of taking Grey Knights would be to bulk up your body count and/or score, and this option removes their ability to hold objectives.

Summary of DH Allies
There's a little less bounty to be had from making friends with the Daemonhunters. Their troops are not cheap enough to seriously bulk up your body count. You can get ISTs either place, or you could theoretically draw them from BOTH codices if you wanted to have 2-3 Deathwing squads.

A Grey Knight Terminator squad is an option, but runs the risk of stealing your thunder. On the other hand? They're a source of I4 power weapons at S6. Sometimes, you just might WANT to freakin' hit at initiative. They also let you incorporate a psychic hood into your force.

The DH Inquisitor, though, is superior to be honest. Mystics are insanely useful, and can completely change the way an opponent plays. The Emperor's Tarot is also a valuable piece of kit, letting you get the initiative on the other guy.

All in all, the DH have an edge with the Inquisitor, and the same old ISTs. However, they won't really help the body count, but they can get you the melta love you want.

Sample DH Buddy List at 1850
Let's see what the list looks like with the toys in it.

HQ
Belial [130]

Lord w/ Hood, Emperor's Tarot
3x Heavy Bolter Servitors
2 Mystics
[167]

Elite
4 Grey Knight Termies (Including Bro-Cap) 2x Psycannon [246]

Dreadnought w/ Multi-melta [125]

Dreadnought w/ Multi-melta [125]

Troops
Deathwing Squad w/ Claws, AC, CF [250]

Deathwing Squad w/ Claws, AC, CF [250]

5 IST w/ 2x Meltagun
Chimera w/ ML, HF, EA
[155]

5 IST w/ 2x Meltagun
Chimera w/ ML, HF, EA
[155]

Heavy Support
Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons [130]

Predator w/ Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons [95]

Total: 1828

Note you have some points to play around with; you have some ways to burn 22 spare points, like giving the OM lord a pistol, CCW, and Sanctuary while handing the Dakka-Pred a storm bolter.

Once again, the list is similar to the mix of sisters, though you're down a Terminator squad to bring in the GKT for your assault love. The list is pretty shooty and fairly mechanized; you've got a decent amount of armor on the table with two Dreads, two Preds, and two Chimera. Each terminator squad can crank out a decent number of S6 shots, and the preds can do some damage at range hunting light armor. And, of course, you have some melta love for larger vehicles.

To be honest, I again feel like the list is losing some thunder to the allies, though that's me.

I do think that you can benefit from a more minimal inclusion with just the Inquisitor Lord, or another HQ with a Psychic Hood. A unit of GKT is neat, but does cut down on your troop terminators, and the Shrouding makes the enemy a bit more likely to just shoot other things to death. Past that, the ISTs feel like the meat of the allies, as they can get you the melta love. However, taking ISTs means committing to some more mech, so you can keep all the armor alive.

Deathwing Allies: Witch Hunters

A few comments on the Deathwing List Types breakdown got me thinking more and more about the ally selections open to the Deathwing. First, I'll focus on the Witch Hunters.

Ally Rules
Per the ally rules in the Witch Hunters codex, you may make the following selections to the Deathwing (and other imperial forces)

0-1 HQ
0-1 Elite
0-2 Troops
0-1 Fast Attack

With that in mind, I'm going to look at what the crazy burny sisters can bring to your terminator-armored maniacs. I'm going to assume we're starting with Belial and two 5-man DW squads packing the assault cannon and chain fist, so we're spending 630 off the bat and have two troops.

What Can the Sisters Get Us?
The Sisters can bring cheaper bodies, for one thing. 43 points gets us three Sisters. Sisters have access to melta weaponry, and transports that cost less than 250 points. There are also some specialist options, and I'll run down the list.

HQ Selections
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord
This one is really 65 minimum; it's 45 but you should really pay 20 points for the psychic hood. Psychic defense is one thing the Deathwing lack; the best DW can get is a Ld9 librarian. Believe me, the extra point of leadership is worth it, since the tie goes to the other guy/girl/monster/daemon/thingy.

Past that, you're really best off making this a shooty retinue. You can get up to three Warrior henchmen at 15 a head; and if you want to stand off you can make them BS4 heavy bolters at 25 a head. You can get a 4+ save against hostile psychic powers with a Penitent for 7 points, and for 12 points you can get a Chururigeon, and ignore the first wound a turn as long as it's not power weapons or instant death.

That in mind, a sample OH setup would be:
Lord w/ Hood [65]
3x Heavy Bolter Warriors [75]
Chururigeon [12]
Total: 152

It sits back, it counters psychic powers. Not a bad price. It does compete with the Daemonhunters Inquisitor, who can get a psycannon for himself and increase the amount of fire you put out.

You could, theoretically, get a bunch of acoyltes, bring plasma on the warriors and combi-plasma on the acolytes, and be the plasma-spam-of-death squad, which is also known as the 'dies-next-turn' squad. Not a real use for that one, mind you.

There are two Psychic Powers of note for the guy, as far as I can tell. Scourge of the Witches lets you roll a d6, and your score is the number of psykers that take a Ld check or Perils, starting with the closest. No, you don't get to keep the extra hits. Otherwise, it's Hammerhand, which is a filler power that gives the Inquisitor S6 in melee. Real comforting for him, I'm sure.

Finally, if for some reason you feel the need for a spare Rhino (which costs 50 points, not 35, btw) you can get one here.

Sororitas Heroine
Yay, more fate points. That's all she really is; and you don't really need her in a DW army.

Priests
You have no use for these in a DW army; they cannot attach to your squads.

Elite Selections
Elite OH Inquisitor
Skip this one. It has Ld8 and has to buy henchmen to get up to Ld10. You don't need the plasma option, truthfully. Not for what it costs here.

Arco-Flagellents
Well, first off, you need a priest. Since priests are not actually part of the force org chart, it might be debatable whether you can even take them. Let's assume, for a moment, that you can, and you can unlock the Arcos. Ok, they're 35 points a head for a T5, 4++ guy with a random number of power weapon attacks. While that's a great fire magnet, it's also a 210 point unit for a full set of 6 that can't ride in vehicles. On the other hand, once you kick off the injectors, they're basically Fleet; they move 6", then move another d6, and may assault; OR you can just get 6+2d6" off them in a turn.

I think they could be nasty, but Deathwing isn't exactly short on high-damage power weapons.

Sisters Repentia
It's a unit full of S6 chainfists. Wherever will we find something like that? Wait. Powerfists are standard issue in a Deathwing army. I think we can safely skip these.

Celestians
Now we're getting into the nuns with guns. They're basically an elite squad of sisters with more guns. We'd take them after we take the two regular sister squads, just to have three. The downside is that they can only get a single meltagun; the other real option is a heavy flamer or multi-melta:
A sample melta configuration would look like:
5 Celestians [65]
Vet Sister upgrade [10]
Meltagun [10]
Multi-melta [15]
Rhino w/ Extra Armor, Smoke [58]
Total: 158

Or, we could drop 65 more points for a basic Immolator, and from there we get two options: 1) Realize we have a twin-linked heavy flamer we can fire even if we moved 12", or drop another 20 points for a turreted twin-linked multi-melta. Mmm, burning. AND, we still have a fire point. So, we can be a nasty melta-turret, or do nasty drive-by burnings. Hallo, options.

Assassin Operative
Note that you have to take an Inquisitor Lord to unlock these for allies. You get four options for assassins, and I'll detail them briefly. They cost 95-120 points, depending on the type.

-Vindicare Assassin: Man, snipers are cool. But impractical. He just doesn't do a lot of damage. He has some gimmicky special shots he gets to use once each, and he can pick his own targets, but...he just doesn't do enough damage.

-Culexus: I...hate psykers. I...do very little else. Skip me.

-Eversor: infiltrating CC powerhouse that explodes when killed. If you get first turn, this guy can actually do some damage. He gets a 12" assault, and +d6 attacks on the charge. He'll never need more than a 4+ to wound his target with a power weapon, AND he's got a meltabomb just in case. If you can get a good infiltration position on him, he will do unspeakable things. Downside? He's still just one T4 guy with two wounds and a 4+. But MAN, he's fun.

-Callidus: I have two uses. First, I let you reposition one enemy unit 6". Then, I pop up, fire a flamer template that's S8, AP1 vs. their leadership, and assault and ignore saves. Too bad it's limited against vehicles.

I'd have to go with the Eversor or Callidus for real utility, but the bigger problem is that you're looking to get MORE bodies out of allies, not less.

Death Cult Assassins
45 points, take up to three; they infiltrate and have power weapons. Big whoop. They're not that useful, all in all. You get much cooler guys for 43 points a head, they're called 'Terminators.'

Troop Selections
Sisters of Battle
Mmm, 11 points for T3 angry woman in power armor. Better yet, the squad can take two meltaguns, or a flamer and heavy flamer (I mean, if you're low on points, double flamers, but come on. Heavy flamers are LOVE!). Downside is a minimum of 10 per squad. A sample configuration would look like:

10 Sisters [110]
2 Meltaguns [20]
Sister Superior [14, for the fate point]
Rhino w/ Smoke, Extra Armor [58]
Total: 202

The real point is to deliver the meltaguns. in a pinch, they can rapid-fire stuff.

Or, if we really wanted to, we could bring the full 20 sisters and a leader with an eviscerator, and do some ridiculous things with Faith in combat. Oh, and bring the meltaguns. Yeah. I think I'd stick to the mech'ed up sisters first, though.

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
We get 5-10 guys, and they each get hellguns and frags. Ho, hum. Oh, wait, we can take 2 flamers, 2 plasma guns, or, yes, two meltaguns. 70 points for two meltaguns. Theoretically we could take a combi-melta, but we'd have to pay a total of 25 for sarge and the combi-weapon, and I find that somewhat inefficient.

These guys may also access the Chimera, but their Chimera is 70 base, and must buy its weapons. It would be 85 after the obligatory multi-laser and the might-as-well hull heavy flamer. 88 after smoke, 93 after extra armor. Or, there's the Rhino at 58 after the gubbins.

5 IST [50]
2 Meltaguns [20]
Rhino w/ EA, Smoke [58]
OR
Chimera w/ Multi-laser, hull heavy flamer [85]
Total: 128 OR 155

The Chimera's a bit more durable if you can keep the front towards the enemy, and it can contribute some middleweight gunfire and such. Plus, you get a heavy flamer you might actually use. Or, you can go for the points savings you get with a Rhino.

The big question here is one of armor saturation; do you want more AV11 or AV12 (front only, naturally). You have fire points enough to shoot your specials out of the top either way.

Fast Attack
Seraphim
Jump troops. Hurrah. They're 'eh' in combat, even if they can get an Eviscerator sarge and have Hit 'n' Run. Their one real benefit to you is that they can deliver a couple of flamers or twin-linked inferno pistols (which means 6" for the regular, and 3" for the +2d6, AND no AP1). You have plenty of CC and bolter fire in the Deathwing as it is, so why bring these? And, you can get melta in other places, and you have better fast attack options, like...

Celestians
It's more Sisters of Battle. It's Sisters, except FOUR of them get weapon options, to the tune of flamers or meltaguns. Plus, they too can mount an Immolator, or a Rhino. A sample of this might be...

5 Dominions [55]
3 Meltaguns [45]
1 Flamer [6]
Vet Sarge [14]
Rhino w/ EA, Smoke [58]
Total: 178

More if you want the Immolator. 68 or 88, depending on the melta or heavy flamer. The mix of meltaguns and flamers is largely there to let you fire all of them out the top, and still have the joy of a template weapon. Plus, their meltaguns are 15 a head, not 10. Stupid witch hunters...

Option Roundup
So, that's what we get. Note that the Ordo Malleus has the same ISTs and Assassins, and their Inquisitor isn't that different. Out of the options outlined, I'd trim it down to these worth considering:

HQ Inquisitor
Celestians
Sisters of Battle
ISTs
Dominions

The Inquisitor is there SOLELY for psychic defense. The others are in there becaue they can bring you melta love. Assassins are strictly a 'for funsies' proposition. The other real choice you need to make is ISTs or Sisters for your troops buddies. ISTs are suicide units, but can get you Chimeras, which may or may not be useful. The Sisters are more costly, but more durable, and can get the Book of Saint Cheese (Or, Anyone Nearby Gets My Unmodified Ld Value) which is important for keeping them alive. The other benefit of Sisters is getting some Faint Points; the most you should really have is 4, but those Acts of Faith are potentially ludicrously effective.

Sample 1850 Lists
These are by no means a tested or exhaustive list. It's simply a sample after doing this evaluation.

Gun-Nuns
HQ
Belial [130]

Lord w/ Hood
3x Heavy Bolter Warriors
[140]

Elite
5 Celestians
Vet Sister upgrade, Book of Cheese, Meltagun,Multi-melta
Immolator w/ Extra Armor, Smoke
[188]

Troops
Deathwing Squad [250]
Lightning Claws, Assault Cannon, Chainfist, Sarge

Deathwing Squad [250]
Lightning Claws, Assault Cannon, Chainfist, Sarge

10 Sisters, 2 Meltaguns, Vet w/ Book of St Lucius
Rhino w/ EA, Smoke
[207]

10 Sisters, 2 Meltaguns, Vet w/ Book of St Lucius
Rhino w/ EA, Smoke
[207]

Fast Attack
5 Dominions,3 Meltaguns, Flamer, Vet Sarge, Book of Saint Loser
Immolator w/ EA, Smoke
[208]

Heavy Support
Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons [130]

Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons [130]

Total: 1847

Pros
Lots more bodies, you have melta weapons, and some usable template weapons. You even have psychic protection.

Cons
We kind of relegated the Terminators to a supporting role. We have 10 terminators plus Belial, and we have 30 sister of battle. We're pretty much a Witch Hunter list with terminators and some longer-ranged support from Dreadnoughts.

If you wanted, you could collapse the dreadnoughts into a third Deathwing Squad, but I like the long-ranged firepower.

Allies Lite
HQ
Belial [130]

Lord w/ Hood
3x Heavy Bolter Warriors
[140]

Elites
Dreadnought w/ Multi-melta
[125]

Dreadnought w/ Multi-melta
[125]

Troops
Deathwing Squad [280]
Claws, Assault Cannon, Chainfist, Apothecary

Deathwing Squad [250]
Claws, Assault Cannon, Chainfist

Deathwing Squad [250]
Claws, Assault Cannon, Chainfist

5 IST w/2 Meltaguns
Chimera w/ Multi-laser, hull heavy flamer
[155]

5 IST w/2 Meltaguns
Chimera w/ Multi-laser, hull heavy flamer
[155]

Heavy Support
Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
[130]

Predator w/ Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Pintle Storm Bolter
[100]

Total: 1850

Pros
I feel a little more Deathwing-y now. We have psychic defense, a little bit of ranged love, and we have a decent chunk of melta support. We still have 15 terminators, and we've got some Angelic love.

Cons
Man, those Chimera were expensive. However, I feel like spamming more AV12 is a better idea; as it is those Chimeras will draw attention. I feel like the utility of the Chimera and the backup Melta-dreads is a balance, though.

In general, this list feels a little better balanced than the sister-heavy one. If you want symmetry with the predators, lose the Apothecary. As it is, I'm not sure about the predator loadout; that last 230ish points was a little bit of a head-scratcher. I feel like the list would be served by reaching out and touching someone, though, so Predators are pretty much in. This lets me switch the Dreadnoughts to multi-melta models, and advance them with everyone else.

Summary
Overall, I'm certain there's more I could do with the list-building. Those two are just examples, but I'm leaning a bit towards the second one. I feel like it still gets the Deathwing flavor in there, but gives me a bit more utility and redundancy. The sister-heavy one makes the Deathwing seem like an afterthought.

The biggest question with the Sisters is 'do I try to get Fate Points?' If so, you're looking at another 10-15 points per unit, and then you might as well get the Book of St. Lucius. The Fate Points are nice, but at some point I think you're diluting the Deathwing a bit much, and you're almost better off trying to slap Allied Grey Knight Terminators in there (if that works; I'm not 100% sure on it, but if the ally rules are similar then yeah, it would work).

To be honest, after this analysis I'm looking into the IST list idea. If nothing else, I feel like there's something to be had there.

Basic Deathwing Variations

This article's a bit more about fluff and self-imposed army restrictions. I think that you can break down the Deathwing builds into four basic categories: 'Purist', 'Inclusive', 'Double-Wing,' and 'Fields some Deathwing Terminators.' Naturally, these titles are a bit arbitrary, but I'm not sure there are some definitive ones.

Note also that it's perfectly alright to use the Deathwing army list to represent just a first-company formation or first-company-heavy formation. Most chapters have their Terminators in the first company, as you have to be a hard core soldier among hard core soldiers to earn the right to wear it.

Deathwing Purist
The Dark Angels and successors are collectively called 'The Unforgiven', though it's supposed to be a secret, self-inflicted title. In this context, the Deathwing are privvy to the exact reasons behind the unfortunate monicker (Hint: it has something to do with half their chapter siding with Horus, or at least appearing to. Just don't ask them why their floating space station has some planetary crust stuck to the bottom.).

The Deathwing Purist mindset focuses solely on what's in the first company. The list would be:
-Deathwing Terminators
-Dreadnoughts
-Land Raiders

This is something of a limited list. I've touched on what you can get your Deathwing Terminators to do (and what they really can't). So, you have Dreadnoughts and Raiders to work with, or you can simply go all footslogging Terminators.

The shorthand version is that this is the most limited list, obviously. Raiders seriously cut down your model count, and if the enemy can kill AV14, you're screwed, pure and simple. Dreadnoughts can provide you with anti-tank firepower and/or long-ranged power, but there's still just not a lot of armor on the field.

Deathwing Purist also has the side effect of being finicky to build: all your points come in large chunks. Termies are 215-250ish a squad, Raiders are 250-65, and Dreads are 125-175. Tweaking a list gets to be a bit of a pain, at times.

Deathwing Inclusive
I'm going to use 'Deathwing Inclusive' to denote armies that run Deathwing Terminators as their sole source of troops, but are willing to run just about any other option. This opens you up to:
-Dreadnoughts
-Land Speeders
-Predators
-Vindicators

As you can see, you suddenly got some more options. For the most part, these add some range and/or anti-tank punch to the list. Those that go for triple Vindicators often take the name 'Siegewing', for example, and can boast some actual anti-tank firepower and a fire magnet even greater than the Deathwing Terminator: the Vindicator. Predators can be long-range anti-infantry torrent units, or can be configured to be lascannon/autocannon bunkers. Speeders can mount multi-meltas and heavy flamers, and Dreadnoughts can get you lots of things.

Honestly, I feel that this type of a build grants you some serious flexibility; if you're determined to make Deathwing Terminators work as troops then I think adding in some supporting flavor isn't a bad idea.

Double-Wing
AKA 'Death-raven', this refers to building your army exclusively out of Deathwing Terminators and Ravenwing squads. This means committing to either Belial OR Sammael as HQ choices, or both. However, going 'both' is bloody costly; that's upwards of 250-300 on HQ units. Given how costly you guys are on a model-per-model basis, I'd probably roll with an either/or proposition.

The strength of this army is in its deployment flexibility; it can combine the nasty scout move of Ravenwing Bikers with teleport homers and the Deathwing Assault. This translates to 'Man, where the hell did 10-15 terminators come from on turn one?' It's amazing for putting folks on the back foot right from the beginning.

The downside of double-wing is that you're going to have a low model count, and it takes lots of points to work. At least you get fast melta on bikes, though. I'd say, though, that the low model count makes the army hellishly unforgiving, if not highly difficult to work with. Still, its strength lies in a more unusual strategy. However, if folks are used to Demons, they'll have their own deep-strike defenses; you just have fewer guys, different CC, and better saves than they're used to.

Fields Some Deathwing Terminators
This build's minimal consideration is Belial and a couple Deathwing squads. Past that, it'll mix in basic power-armored schmucks, which is really what sets it apart from the other builds. I think this can help bolster the model count that you get with Deathwing, though. I think it might also help to bring in allies like Sisters of Battle and/or melta-bearing Inquisitorial Storm Troopers.

This build is likely the most flexible and wide-open, but it's also the most diluted scheme you can go with.

In Summary
This article's a bit of a departure from my norm; it's more about theme and less about hard math and proof of what can work and what can blow up in your face. It's an interesting change of pace for me, and hopefully some variety in reading for you folks.

I'm curious to get feedback from readers on what they've seen the Deathwing in. This, of course, doesn't take into account various modeling themes, like Ron's Lustwing, or anything else. I mean, my own Deathwing project's a bit of a modeling theme; it's why they're taking so bloody long (and my quest to figure out a cheap way to get some lightning claws...).

Feedback is, of course, welcome.

Deathwing: Analysis of the Basic Building Block

What is the basic element of the Deathwing force? The Terminator squad. As such, it would probably do us well to figure out how to use them. I mean, the whole point of running terminator-heavy out of the Dark Angels codex is to run these guys as troops.

I won't lie; this is a themed build so it's going to accept some limitations. At any rate, on to the building block.

The Deathwing Squad

The Deathwing squad costs 215 points, and gets us 5 fearless terminators.

The Basics

Terminator Armor has a 2+ armor save, a 5+ invulnerable, grants Relentless, and disallows sweeping advances. Terminators carry a BS4 Storm bolter, which is adequate for anti-personnel work with two S4, AP5 shots. In assault, the basic Terminator carries a WS4 powerfist. S8, no armor saves, I1? The only downside is I1. However, Sarge carries a power weapon, so you at least get a couple S4, I4 swings that ignore armor saves.

Ranged Weapon Options

Each Deathwing squad may choose one of the following:

-Heavy Flamer (S5, AP4, Template) [5pts]

-Assault Cannon (S6, AP4, 24", Heavy 4 Rending) [30pts]

-Cyclone Missile Launcher (S8, AP3, 48", Heavy 1) [20pts]

The burnination device and assault cannon replace the storm bolter, whereas the Cyclone sits on the back and lets you fire it and the storm bolter at the same time.

Looking at the list, on foot your best option is pretty much the assault cannon. The Cyclone just doesn't do a ton against armor; a single S8 shot just kind of falls short of being impressive. Alas for the lack of the GOOD Cyclone launcher statline. The heavy flamer is hard to bring to bear if you're walking. If you're going to teleport, well, if you can land on target then the flamer's more of an option. The Assault Cannon's shorter-ranged, but it can consistently wound just about anything with a toughness, it rends, and it can be adequate against light-to-medium armor.

Melee Weapon Options

You have three melee weapon options with a Deathwing Squad

-Replace a powerfist with a chain fist [5pts]

-Trade your ranged kit for a pair of lightning claws

-Trade your ranged kit for a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

For a mere 5 points, just about every squad should take at least one of these. Five points, the ability to mug higher armor-values? Take it.

The melee weapon options bear a bit more thought. To be honest, the Thunder Hammer and the '4++ only in melee' storm shield fall a bit short of being useful. About the only real reason that comes to mind is for wound-allocation purposes. The Lightning Claws...the benefit is that they're more effective in melee than a power weapon, and they have I4. You do, though, lose the Storm Bolter.

The downside of the melee weapons? If the enemy has power weapons, you're getting a 5+ save. Not so great, considering a given terminator is about 43 points. You have to try to pick your fistfights carefully, and if you run into vanilla-dex TH/SS termies? Not a good day for you, since you fight each other about equally until you make saves. Then his 3+ beats your 5+ hands-down.

The Use of the Deathwing Squad

To be honest, if the strength of your army is Terminators as troops, it's probably a good idea to bring heaps of 'em. Why?

Terminators have one transport option: the Land Raider chassis. It's the same cost as the squad, and it also cuts down the number of troops you have on the table in two ways: 1) fewer points spent on terminators, and 2) one less squad physically walking on the table.

As such, I think walking them is a good idea. A Raider with a squad and heavy flamer + chain fist is almost 500 points, which means that the best you could do is 3 of them and Belial in about 2,000 points, along with maybe some spare change in points.

The other problem with Land Raiders is that if the enemy DOES bring specialist kit to kill them (and a good one will), then you've not got a lot of stuff on the table.

As such, we'll be walking with guns. Assaulting them would be a fine idea, save that you have to get there. I would suggest the following configuration for the basic squad:

Walking Deathwing Squad

Sergeant w/ Power Sword

Lightning Claws

Powerfist/Assault Cannon

Powerfist/Storm Bolter

Chainfist/Storm Bolter

Pro: all distinct models. Hellooo, wound allocation shenanigans. If you want to skip the lightning claws, you can. This little bit's actually fairly comparable to a dakka-pred, save that it can monkey-punch vehicles to death. If you feel the need for a second chainfist, hand it off to the Assault Cannon, so they can't both be outed in one group.

You're capable at shooting, nastier at melee, but must carefully pick your fights and avoid power weapons like the plague. That's just how it is for Deathwing Termiantors.

Riding a Land Raider Crusader

4x Lightning Claw Pairs

1x Chainfist/Heavy Flamer

OR

3x Lightning Claws

1x Chainfist/Heavy Flamer

1x Storm Bolter/Chainfist

If you're rolling out of a crusader, you're going to assault. As I've said before, I'm not so hot on the idea of 3x Crusaders. 2 of them, in higher points, maybe. Still, this is what you'd toss out of them. Use lightning claws, your initiative, and perhaps a chaplain for the re-rolls. Heavy flamer helps you thin the numbers, as even with massed lightning claws you're not THAT killy. (16 swings = 8/12 hits depending on WS, 6-10 wounds) If the enemy doesn't have power weapons, you're fine.

Supporting the Deathwing Squad

Here comes the tougher part, or the part that differentiates the Deathwing army: how do you back the boys in white up? They're adequate for anti-infantry work with guns, and can threaten light armor. They're not exactly long-ranged, though they can reach 30" in a turn with a move and shoot. At 1850-2000, you're probably talking 15-25 terminators, or 3-5 squads.

So, what's that leave you needing?

-Longer ranged power.

-Ranged anti-tank

Oh. And remember: POWER WEAPONS KILL YOU BADLY. If the enemy has a lot of them? Might very well be game for you. It's honestly one of the weaknesses of the army. I mean, Doom + a squad of Howling Banshees is NOT your friend.

We'll cover that another time. Feedback welcomed.

Deathwing List Action

Hey, might as well follow up the Deathwing Progress Report with some list thoughts.

Here's Draft One of the sort of Siege-Wing version.

Belail w/ Lightning Claws (130)

Dreadnought w/ TL Autocannon, Missile Launcher (135)

Dreadnought w/ TL Autocannon, Missile Launcher (135)

Deathwing Terminator Squad (310)
-Apothecary
-Deathwing Standard
-Assault Cannon
-Chainfist (x2)

Deathwing Terminator Squad (250)
-Assault Cannon
-Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad (250)
-Assault Cannon
-Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad (250)
-Assault Cannon
-Chainfist

Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade (130)

Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade (130)

Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade (130)

Total: 1850

There is some slack to be found in the list. I could free up some points by dropping the standard and apothecary, but the apothecary tends to be pretty useful and the standard...is points-filler, admittedly. +1 attack for the squad is nice, but that makes some assumptions about assault. The second chainfist in that squad is additionally filler.

Still, pulling out the Apothecary and Standard free me up 55; pull out the redundant chainfist for 60 total. If I pulled the Dozer Blades, 75 spare.

The Assault Cannons stay because it lets the termies actually menace lighter armor and such. It's not ideal, but they have a decent volume of fire and strength. They're kind of like a Predator that can punch back, but is deathly allergic to plasma. Luckily, not a lot of folks actually RUN plasma any more. Too middle-of-the-road; it's like a 24" single-shot autocannon or 12" autocannon that disables your ability to assault (at least in terms of anti-armor). This is, of course, imperial plasma we're dealing with. Tau? Man, I think the best crisis suits run plasma for occasions JUST like this.

I am converting up a single Cyclone Missile Launcher fellow, just in case I find need for him. He frees me up 10 points and designates a baby-sitter squad, effectively.

Really, honestly, if I want to get more units into the army it's going down to three terminator squads.

With the resulting 250 points, I'd be able to slap a pair of MM/HF speeders in, and the remaining 100 would probably be funneled into a dreadnought. Lose the redundant chainfist and the standard, and maybe get another long-range dreadnought.

Hmm. What's that look like?

Draft 2 of Siege-Wing?

Belail w/ Lightning Claws (130)

Dreadnought w/ TL Autocannon, Missile Launcher (135)

Dreadnought w/ TL Autocannon, Missile Launcher (135)

Dreadnought w/ TL Autocannon, Missile Launcher (135)

Deathwing Terminator Squad (275)
-Apothecary
-Assault Cannon

Deathwing Terminator Squad (250)
-Assault Cannon
-Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad (250)
-Assault Cannon
-Chainfist

Landspeeder w/ MM, HF (75)

Landspeeder w/ MM, HF (75)

Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade (130)

Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade (130)

Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade (130)

Total: 1850

Feels a bit puny on the troops side, but I think the guns got a lot better. Honestly, at this point I'd be tempted to cut another Deathwing squad, though, and re-invest the 250 there into some more troops...I would love to get a couple of razorback-mounted tactical squads, but the points just aren't there. I'm beginning to recall all the joys with points issues and such.

Plus, I've got freakin' 20+ terminators on the conversion bench. I intend to USE them some, one way or the other. Have an exercise in making a purty army, all that.

As ever, I'm looking for feedback.

Gut says that 15 termies + Belial is cutting it close, but the army feels more like a real army. Gut also says I'm not sure I want to buy more landspeeders again. Then again, if I can actually convert them and like them? What the hell.

Deathwing Update 2, Marathon

The Deathwing cometh (along). I finally got some of the Green Stuff in. I'm talking the 'bulk-rate' green stuff, where it's like $12.99 for an inch wide, four inch tall cylinder. That's why these bases are texture with the stuff.

I'm also using the Deathwing project as an excuse to use some good ol' Pig Iron heads. I'm sorry, they do sweet work. Those are the visor-down heavy armor helmets. Sweet, yes? Yes.

The next step will be doing some green stuff. The guys have cardboard superglued to their crotches as a guide for tabards. I suspect that one way or the other, I'll have learned a lot about Green Stuff by the time this is over.

Admittedly, I've been working a bit slower. I...kind of found Marathon (that will run on my PC. Huzzah). Yeah, it's the old-school mid-90's Bungie shooter. This came out the same time as Doom, and...honestly? Kicks the crap out of doom. There is an actual plot other than "DEMONS BAD! SHOTGUN GOOD!" Admittedly, I enjoy Doom and Doom 2 for mindless fun, but Marathon's got a bit more challenge to it.

I'm not sure how to relate it to 40k, other than you're basically playing a Space Marine (minus power armor, plus ancient tech, minus the bolter). However, the W'rkncacnter sound a whole lot like the C'tan, 'cept the C'tan EAT stars and the W'rkncacnter are imprisoned in them. Plus, the eldar god/gods that are the W'rkcacnter kind of CREATE chaos and/or destruction.

However, the Pfhor are a bit more melee-oriented. I'm not sure how they'd be best represented, though the Melee Guard with Commissars could work out. Red pfhor for the basic guard, purple for the sarges, and the Enforcer for the Commissar? (since said Pfhor carry whompin' sticks, and the Enforcer kind of keeps his buddies in line with a gun sometimes).

Productivity will likely pick back up, but 'til then the aliens need a little cyborg-assisted death. Flamethrowers in a space ship = first (and last) contact. I suppose I could equate the game with Space Hulk, and I am a squad of Terminators in a can.

Pondering the Deathwing

I've been sufficiently busy, and had some spare time to think about Marines as of late.

No, no, not power armor marines. The cool marines, the Terminators. I've mentioned it before, but the project got put on hold due to lack of Green Stuff, which was due to lack of money. I've hawked enough stuff to justify an order from the War Store, because I find GW's price for green stuff to be...a bit high, shall we say.

So, I can safely contemplate army lists now. I've got one already, though it's pure footslogging.

Medic?!
Belial 130
Librarian w/ Termie armor, Combi-weapon 150
Command Squad w/ Apothecary, 2x Meltagun 145
Command Squad w/ Apothecary, 2x meltagun 145
Deathwing Squad w/ Apothecary, Assault Cannon, Chainfist 280
Deathwing Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist 250
Deathwing Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist 250
Deathwing Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist 250
Deathwing Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist 250
1850 Total

The goal? Laugh my ass off with Apothecaries. I walk that way, and prepare to harm things. Yes, it's got range issues; that's Deathwing. We take Assault Cannons because they're superior to the Cyclone Launcher save for range.

I might drop an Assault Cannon for a cyclone to have a more designated score-squad, and then hand a couple meltabombs out to the command squads.

The Wing of Siege, Prototype 1
Belial 130
Dreadnought 125
Dreadnought 125
Deathwing Squad w/ Apothecary, Assault Cannon, Chainfist 280
Deathwing Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist 250
Deathwing Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist 250
Deathwing Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist 250
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade 130
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade 130
Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade 130

Total: 1800/1850

Note well that this list is 50 points under. I keep the solid core of 20 terminators, still. The 'siege-wing' moniker comes from the triple Vindicators, and they kind of help the list kill armor. In a pinch, if someone breaks cover? Smells like victory.

The question I'm pondering is what to do with the last 50, and how to potentially kit out the dreads. Autocannons could provide some lighter anti-tank, and some real range. Adding missiles to that might help a bit, and give me something with a threat more than 24". Or, I can just hand out the multi-meltas, and tell them to get a move on.

Or, there's always the Ravenwing tank-popping option. 3 guys, 2 meltaguns, and a multi-melta attack bike cost 190. Granted, that's not exactly resilient...but the only other way to get more Ravenwing bikers is +100 for 3 more. Yeah. Flexible, ain't it? If I dropped the dreads, I'd have 300 spare, which would get me a Ravenwing suicide* melta-squad and...110 points left over. Yay. I'd have to lose a Siege Tank, and that's cutting down on the armor a bit.

More likely, I'll add missile launchers to the dreadnoughts (20 points) and then find something to do with the remaining 30. Or, I dunno.

So it is I turn to the peanut gallery, and hope no one brought rotten fruit for the army list.

[Edit]
That Tactics Bit I'd Promised
So, when you get down to it, you can do a lot of stuff with a Deathwing Squad. 5 guys. By default, one carries a power sword, the other have fists, all have storm bolters. You can take chainfists for +5, a weapon upgrade (assault cannon or cyclone launcher), and anyone can trade their shooty kit for assaulty kit (2x Lightning Claws or TH/SS).

Well, the TH/SS for Deathwing is of inferior durability to the regular marine one. A 4++ in melee versus a 3++ against everything? Skip the shield.

Some people swear by lightning claws, and you could theoretically use them to have a squad of 5 unique fellows:

Sarge w/ Power Weapon, Storm Bolter
Powerfist, Storm Bolter
Powerfist, Assault Cannon
Chain Fist**, Storm Bolter
Lightning Claws

But, do the lightning claws appreciably improve your killyness in melee?

Let's compare:
Squad A has a power weapon and 4 fists
Squad B has a power weapon, paired claws, and 3 fists.

Assuming a 4+ to hit and against T4...
Squad A
Not Charging
0.5 Power Weapon wounds (1 hit, 50/50 wound shot)
4 Powerfist hits, 3.33 wounds
Total: 3.38
Charging
1.5 power weapon hits, 0.75 PW wounds
6 powerfist hits, 5 powerfist wounds
Total: 5.75

Squad B
Not Charging
0.5 Power Weapon Wounds
1.5 Claw hits, 1.125 claw wounds
3 Fist hits, 2.5 Wounds
Total: 4.125 Wounds
Charging
0.75 Power Weapon Wounds
2 Claw hits, 1.5 Claw wounds
4.5 Fist hits, 3.75 fist wounds
Total: 6 Wounds

What Did We Learn?
The claws provide you a bit of a boost vs. not having claws. Obviously against T3 folks, the claws will do a bit better. Without charging, it's a difference of 0.745 wounds, and on the charge it's 0.25 wounds.

So, next question. Shooting. Deathwing's likely to spend time shooting at folks, and the claws cost you a storm bolter. As cool as Deathwing Termies are, you're in close combat 'til the end, but if the other guy has power weapons, you're kind of hosed. Your amazing 2+ save goes to a 5+, which isn't so great.

The claws do not help against monsters or vehicles, either.

But, you do get a bit more of a wound allocation game, since a normal squad's 'groups' look like:
Sarge
2x SB/PF guys
SB/CF guy
Assault Cannon/PF guy

You lose one group. Not sure how big of an impact that is, to be perfectly honest. It gives you some flexibility, but...not sure. Peanut Gallery?

My gut here says 'keep the storm bolter.' The claws are cool, but I don't know how big of an impact that is.

*Why is it suicide? Because, like Fire Dragons, no one's going to let it live long enough to get more than one shot off.

** Why the chainfist? In case you end up in assault with hefty armor. Bring those can openers. It's +5 points, people. Seriously.

Deathwing Conversion sub-assembly 1, Daemon Teaser

Here, we see a side-by-side comparison of the old metal termies (left) and the new plastic ones (right). Note carefully that Mr. Metal Termie is short and squad, while the plastic one stands taller and looks even more menacing. (Yes, he's big enough that his storm bolter and powerfist still look cooler than the thunder hammer and storm shield the other dude has.) This is a problem for me, as I am using metal termies in my Deathwing-conversion project.

Why? Simple. I simply CANNOT sell my termies. It's not worth it. The Assault on Black each boxed set is a solid bargain, and as such you can order 5 plastic terminators on-sprue for $10-15 dollars. I just don't feel like handing off Termies for $2 a head. It seems like a waste of my time.

So, I'm going to do something even more time-consuming: invoke the almighty power of Counts-As, and make a Deathwing-themed army.

And THIS is how we solve the problem. The Terminator in the middle is a bizarre, unholy fusion of plastic and metal. How did he come to this terrible state? Simple. I temporarily relieved him of his arms, hacksawed him in half at the waste, and then inserted a cutting of 1mm thick plasticard. Note that it's not precise, but that's what green stuff (or, in my case, green-stuff robes) are for. Note how that even without the arms, he stands tall and proud. Soon, franken-fusion termie, you'll have arms again.

Behold, the beginning of the unholiness. Seven terminators relieved of arms, rent in twain, and then enhanced with plasticard. The work begins. Dramatic proof I'm serious about this Deathwing thing.

More proof I'm serious will involve mass-producing cloaks to go on them (taken from a casting of the Chaos Terminator Lord/Sorceror's kit) and mass-producing the FTW-style pre-heresy terminator shoulder pads.

And, the promised teaser: one of my heralds of Tzeentch. I had a necron destroyer laying around from that temporary-insanity phase where I tried to run a Necron army, and realized there's a difference between challenging yourself with a codex, and playing an army that's deficient. This guy needs a little more paint, but I'm pleased with how he's going. It fits into the Daemonforge theme I've got going on.

Daemons, Deathwing, and Conversions

First order of business...the Daemon vs. Xardian's Footslogging CSM batrep. I didn't bring the camera, so you'll have to rely on my memory and good old MS paint diagrams.

The Battle Report
Scenario: Table Quarters w/ 4 Objectives

Xardian's CSM, the Red Team
Lord w/ Mark of Tzeentch, meltabomb, power weapon, Disc of Tzeentch ('L')
3 Large (15-16 man) squads of CSM; Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/ Fist, 2 specials (flamers or a meltagun) ('M')
2 Squads of 4 Terminators Each (3x PW/Combi-plas, one w/ powerfist/heavy flamer) ('T')
2 Havoc Squads (10-man w/ Chaos Glory; one with 4 missiles, one w/ 2 autocannon, 2 missiles)
1 Squad of 8 Lesser Daemons

Chaos Daemons (as inspired by Stelek), the Blue Team
3 Heralds of Tzeentch (Chariot, Master of Sorcery, Bolt of Tzeentch, Soul Devourer) ('H')
3 units of 5 Fiends of Slaanesh ('F')
4 units of 5 Plaguebearers ('P')
2 units of 8 Bloodletters ('B')
3 Daemon Princes (Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Tzeentch, Daemonic Gaze) ('M')

Chosen Half: 2 Heralds, 3 Fiends, 3 DP

The Battlefield
Objectives (the Green X's)
Grey Blobs: rocky area terrain
Black Polygons: 2-story buildings



Turn one?
I win the roll, and let him go first. He sets up with a large squad on both objectives, and a squad headed down towards the bottom. Havocs are in tidy little shooting spots.

I…promptly fail to get the correct half of my army; the Chaos Gods flip me a ‘1’. Plague Bearers come down on two of the objectives, and one squad gets ready to hide some. Bloodletters come down behind the Plaguebeaers, and hope to use them for cover. My Herald comes down without incident, and promptly accounts for 3 marines that are in the open.
Turn 2
The guns come on. He wipes out the Bloodletters on the far flank; they were going to think about end-running and assaulting a squad. The other squad gets cut down to half, and his Lord detaches to go charge the plaguebearers. They promptly tie combat.

I roll a Daemon Prince, a Herald, and all three fiends. One squad of Fiends promptly strikes off the table and dies from the mishap. The Bloodletters find a gap in the chunk of Plaguebearers, and get into melee with the Lord. We tie combat with two wounds.

Turn 3
He promptly one-rounds the Daemon Prince with some Terminators and plasma. Damn if he’s not got a lot of icons and a lot of room to deep-strike stuff. Marines advance and pour fire into a Herald, and get two wounds on it. Marines shuffle, and don’t assault. Can’t say I blame them. Shooting occurs; stuff dies, and then the Bloodletters hack a wound off the Lord and the Plaguebearers finish it off.

The other Herald and a Daemon Prince join the fray. The Prince looks around and picks a spot to pick on Havocs with. He then picks on Havocs. My Fiends and Bloodletters promptly massacre one of his squads; the other Fiends promptly engage the Terminators and beat ‘em up. The Plaguebearers charge the nearby marine squad after the Heralds soften them up; there are two models left when the zombies hit: the Icon and the Champ. Champ falls. The third herald, who just arrived in left field, guns down more marines. Now it's not reflected in the diagrams, but the Summoned Lesser Daemons DO beat down a wounded Herald, and the other one takes two Fearless wounds.

Turn 4
A Daemon prince goes ‘poof.’ Damn, that’s happening with some kind of frightening regularity…his Daemons and last Terminators arrive. He proceeds to LIGHT UP the Bloodletters, and they die. They’d consolidated into cover by the Havocs, gone to ground, and STILL busted out a bunch of 1’s and 2’s. His Daemons tie up the nearby heralds in CC, and the remaining dude in that squad just keeps lasting. He’s made about 7-9 power armor saves by now. My Fiends finish off the Terminators that had KO’ed the prince.

My last Daemon Prince arrives; it and the herald light up the marine squad on the far side and whittle it down to a handful of fellows. The mostly-full Fiends proceed to help eat up the Lesser Daemons, and the remaining Fiend charges into his Terminators, and actually kills one. The Daemon Prince and Herald finish off that last, depleted squad.

Turn 5
His Terminators finish off that last, recalcitrant Fiend. They consolidate towards the nearest Plaguebearer squad. Additionally, I FINALLY finish off that straggling marine. At this point, he thinks it’s looking pretty grim.

In my turn, I lay claim to the other two objectives, and we toy with a turn six. It’s not enough to dislodge me.

Victory: Daemons.

Casualties:

CSM: 3 large CSM squads, Terminator squad, Lord, Daemons

Daemons: 2 Daemon Princes, 2 Bloodletter squads, Fiends x1, Herald x1

All in all, a bloody, brutal, fun throw-down. I'd wanted soemthing other than my dice-damned Eldar, especially after the last weekend. We also completed our trade, so I'm out some more mothballed Marines and up 2 Vypers and a well-converted Wave Serpent. I have plans for them...

Daemon Conversions

I'll eventually put up more pics, but part of the point of starting Daemons was, for me, the conversions. Someone recently chanced across my blog who's doing Daemons for much the same reason; go check out Lady Falcia's conversion blog. Interesting paint scheme and theme, and while I've seen Dryads used as Horrors, I haven't seen them incorporated in that manner.

But, I'm looking for Bloodletters...I ask Xardian, and he suggests good old Sisters Repentia. No one uses the blasted things much any more, and I could probably e-bay them for cheap. Knock a few Eviscorators out, and replace 'em with hammers. I mean, Bloodletters have a big, bad, power weapon, so why not go that route and use someone with a big two-handed weapon? I mean, I'd looked at some of the Fantasy folks with Great Weapons, except they tended to be metal and expensive. Not really what I'm looking for, for starters.

The Chaos-Wing List

I think I figured out what to do with the remainder of the points; I hand the Librarian a combi-weapon and trade out the last Cyclone Missile Launcher for an assault cannon. Then, I don't have to buy a damned thing. The army would then look like...

Belial

Librarian w/ Terminator Armor, Combi-weapon (probably melta or flamer)

4x Terminator Squads w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist

1x Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon, Chainfist, Apothecary

2x Command Squads w/ 2 meltaguns, Apothecary

Total: 1850, aw yeah.

The command squads give me more apothecaries and make you make me take more saves. Ha.

And, I've got plenty of Terminators, and more than enough bodies. Tiem to think more on the conversion theme, but I'm thinking in terms of robes (to cover up the Imperial iconography) and some head swaps, and probably chaosing-up some Chainfists.

There's also the issue of covering up a whole lotta Crux Terminatus.

On the Painting Front: Tau

...man, assembly-lining 32 kroot is fun. Sure, we'll call that 'fun', but at least after that the Tau army I'm working on is damn near painted. Still 5 Crisis Suits, 2 Broadsides, and a hammerhead down, but it's getting there. Got a Crisis Suit painted up (mostly), and got the Fire Warriors done up.

Strainborming, Deathwing?

Now, one of the byproducts of having played marines (and flirted with Deathwing, for a time) is that I've got a lot of Terminators.

Not only that, but the problem is that Terminators aren't really worth a lot in terms of resale value. The whole Black Reach boxed set has seen to that rather well, and people have bitted out Termiantors for very little.

As such, I'm wondering about doing something with them. Now, I like the idea of Chaos, and I could even fall for the codex (somewhat), there's still the issue of running an army.

I'm also hankering a bit for some conversion fun, and until that blankety-blanking job finally calls back and gives me hours, I'm kind of out of money.

So, a thought's emerged, in part from this article from FTW and from seeing a 'First Company' army from the previous RTT.

Of course, brainstorming up Deathwing and working over the lists also means dealing with the art of BUILDING a Deathwing list. Nothing here comes in small blocks. You're stuck with taking Belial to 'unlock' Deathwing squads as troops, and there aren't a ton of options to hand to the Terminators.

Looking at the Deathwing Squad
The average squad comes in at 215 points for 5 fearless terminators; storm bolter and powerfists down the line except for sarge, who got a power weapon (for some reason or another).

Options
Any model can trade their loadout for a pair of lightning claws, or a thunder hammer and storm shield. This is free.

Squad may take one assault cannon or cyclone missile launcher. This is the 'old' cyclone which costs 20 points to the cannon's 30, but only fires a single krak missile. There's also the heavy flamer at 5 points, but we are kind of a short squad, and unless we're taking landraiders we are walking or risking the deep-strike.

Anyone may take a Chainfist for +5 points.

Additionally, one squad can be designated the 'command' squad, and take an Apothecary (one unit w/in certain range can ignore a failed armor save, with some restrictions) and a Standard (that grants +1 attack to everyone).

Squad loadouts
To be honest, I think the special weapon of choice here is the assault cannon. If I could take the updated codex: Space Marines cyclone, I'd do that in a heartbeat to get the range and versatility. As it stands? Assault cannon's as good as it gets. That puts the squad at 245, and everyone's getting themselves a chainfist, just to put it at an even 250 and let them handle the odd AV14 rear thing that comes along.

It also gives me three distinct 'groups' per squad with wound allocation: Sarge, Special Weapon, SB/Powerfist x2, and SB/Chainfist.

Belial (or whatever his name will be)
Belial's a no-brainer; 130 points for a WS5, BS5, I5 3-wound character in terminator armor. I can pick a storm bolter and master-crafted power weapon, a pair of lightning claws, or a thunder hammer/storm shield for him.

I'm leaning towards the lightning claws or bolter/power weapon. The bolter/MC power weapon lets him always contribute, but then again it's just a BS5 storm bolter. A couple more shots, maybe an additional wound. Lightning claws mean 4 attacks base that re-roll wounds. Right now, my old counts-as belial is packing twin lightning claws, which is nasty enough.

The Rest Of the Army
Now, I've got a draft list, but I want to keep all my guys on foot in termiantor armor. The simple answer is that if anyone's wearing just regular old power armor, they're probably going to get shot to death.

The second note is that I'm pretty much doing this as a 'fun' army; it's all terminators but there's a glaring problem with the list: ...we're kinda short on anti-tank. Terminators can punch out tanks without much of a problem, but they're relying on the rend against anything more durable than AV11.

Now, the guy at the tourney brought triple Vindicators, as those help with hords, and S10 ordnance tends to do a number on armor. (Even my happy little Wave Serpents cringe at that...).

Otherwise, there's always the MM/HF speeder, but I'm kind of 'eh' on those since I got rid of all mine, and they're not exactly durable.

Land Raider DW is a totally different build; in part if I'm going to buy Land Raiders again I'm going to do Daemonhunters in LR, but also that's pretty much committing to 15 guys + Belial. NOT exactly a high model count, and if someone can KO Land Raiders, then I pretty much lose.

Draft List, 1850
Belial 130
Twin Lightning Claws

DW Terminator Squad 250
Assault Cannon, Chainfist

DW Terminator Squad 250
Assault Cannon, Chainfist

DW Terminator Squad 250
Assault Cannon, Chainfist

DW Terminator Squad 250
Assault Cannon, Chainfist

DW Terminator Squad 280
Assault Cannon, Chainfist, Apothecary

Vindicator 130
w/ Dozer Blade

Vindicator 130
w/ Dozer Blade

Vindicator 130
w/ Dozer Blade

Total: 1800

Right now, that's 50 points free. I could dump some of that into upgrades, or try to free up some more and slap it into a character or Dreadnought. Dreads are 125 minimum in the 'dex, which could get me a walking multi-melta. I could free up about the same for a Librarian, but to be honest I'd be looking at a Dreadnought for the cost so I can get something like, oh, a multi-melta in there.

There's also the temptation to drop an assault cannon for a cyclone missile launcher, just to designate a squad as the 'babysitter' and give me a few points back. Of course, I'm not sure what I'll do with the extra 10 points back.

EDIT: I'm like as not to just slap Extra Armor on all the Vindicators and call it a day. If I go with a Cyclone, it's probably Storm Bolters on the Vindies all around, for what it's worth.

It occurs that I COULD drop a DW squad for, say, a pair of dreads, but then I'd be cutting into my Troops and the number of scoring units. More importantly, I'd also be cutting any potential Deathwing Assault to two squads instead of 3. Deathwing is half, rounded up, and 1/2 of 5, rounded up, is 3. 1/2 of 4 is 2.

Fluff-wise, and modding
I'm really tempted to finally give in to my Thousand-Sons fandom and do these guys up with one eye each, and do them in red, probably with white piping.