Monday, June 22, 2020

9th Edition Cometh - Reckless Speculation Time

A wise man once said that opinions are like children - anyone can have them, but not everyone should.

Comedy
I will always be amused by people who run around screaming about how the sky is falling.  The game is changing.  That's what the game does.  If you started in 8th, I absolutely understand some nerves about an edition change since it's the first time it's happened.


What Do We Actually Know
We won't know the full extent of changes until you see actual rules.

That being said, some folks have done a fine job of collecting what GW has actually told us - and I'm definitely not going to do it myself.  Blood of Kittens has a nice compilation of it - might as well look at that.

Highlights
There's a LOT of stuff that's out there - so I'm going to pick out the stuff that jumps out at me as 'important' in terms of impact on gameplay.  Some of it's fairly obvious, but it's still worth laying out in one spot.

1) Command Point and Detachment Changes
Honestly, I think this is going to be one of the biggest changes for people, and it's also one we don't have all the information on yet. 

On the bright side, everyone starts on a level playing field with CP now.  This is kind of nice - there's not as much pressure to bring 2-3 battalions now for CP.  From the sound of it, we regenerate a CP a turn - though they haven't exactly explained how.

Now here's the other piece of the puzzle, and I don't have 100% of it at this time -
-Detachments cost CP
-If your Warlord is in a Detachment, that Detachment does not cost CP
-We know a Battalion detachment is 3 CP

Some armies don't care about mixing - loyalist Space Marines, for example, love their doctrines and so they'd be happy to bring a single detachment (Unless you're mixing chapters). 

Other armies, however, do very much care about multiple detachments - Chaos Demons, for example, love mono-god detachments (characters get Locus of [DEITY] abilities, like re-rolling charges) but an all Khorne army basically skips two phases of the game.  Chaos in general can play effectively together.

So my question, then, is - what are other detachments going to cost?  If I'm looking for like an Elite unit and an HQ, then maybe 1CP for a patrol unit isn't a bad deal on top of my 'free' Battalion my Warlord is in.

2) Mission Objective Changes
Apparently GW's taking a page from the ITC book here and going for varied mission objectives.  I'm kind of ok with this, provided that the mission objectives are balanced.  Having a variety that we can pick from based on the matchup makes sense to me.  Anyone who's played Maelstrom of War has invariably had a game or two decided based on craptastic objective draws.

3) Terrain Changes
I'm ok with this one as well - codify rules.  I expect to see aftermarket laser-cut tokens for terrain, or some sticky notes for this.

4) Point value Changes
They've said it's going to happen - so far they've given us point values for two units.  Also, GW said they're going to launch their own official army-building app, so I'm kind of ok with that. 

As for what impact it has - honestly, we need to see all of the above to have a guess.

5) Changes to Reserves and Arriving from it
There have been hints about changes to what you can do with reserves.  In 8th, you needed a neat rule to go into reserves and it governed how you arrived.  Apparently you'll be able to use CP to go into reserves now, and you may be able to walk onto a board edge now.  More to follow.

6) Hooray Vehicles!
Tanks get to move and shoot heavy weapons without a penalty? SWEEEEET! (Also I guess if you play 'nids or otherwise have shooty monstrous creatures, YAY).  Tanks get to shoot non-blast weapons into melee? SWEEET!  Blood is a paint job now! (Or it always was, if you were a Knight or Khorne disciple)

I'm actually kind of ok with this.  A LOT of vehicles are going to be a bit more useful now - or at least more mobile.  Taking -1 to hit when you moved (on top of a potentially degraded stat line) is a big 'meh.'  At least, a lot of vehicles are going to look more useful, and charging them to keep them tied up is going to be less attractive.

7) OMG OVERWATCH IS TEH NERFED!
Ok, look.  Let's be honest here - outside of the occasional HILARIOUS hot dice, how often did overwatch change the course of the game?  Did it happen with units that were already proficient with it, either by rules/stratagems or by weapons? (IE - Iron Hands w/ stratagems to hit on 4+, Tau, or folks w/ flamers?)

Honestly, I want to see who gets rules that help out overwatch in the new edition. 

Speculation
Having mocked people who believe the sky is falling, I'm going to try to keep my speculation on the more constructive side.

1) You're going to have to Re-Do Your Army Lists
This is kind of a given, what with the changes to detachments and point values.  I suspect the Brigade list is basically DOA for 2,000 points.  It wasn't impossible to build for in 8th, but it did provide a challenge - and a heap of CP.

2) You May NOT have to Re-Do Your Army Concepts
If you had already built a list that included screens, anti-infantry, anti-tank, and scoring units, you probably had a decent list.  The question is going to be how many detachments you need, and what you end up trimming.

Frankly, my plan is to sit down with my old lists next to a blank sheet and see if I can transcribe them.

3) You Will (Still) Definitely Want Screens
First off, I'm sure there are still folks out there who don't bring screening units.  These people confuse me.  You have clearly never experienced something like a Kytan Ravager charging something juicy from 48 inches away. (Technically possible with Warptime, a good advance roll, and Soulforged Pack).  Or you've never had Slaaneshi terminators double-tap something juicy, then charge something else (paying 1CP for a '6' on a charge dice and still having access to a re-roll? Yeah, if something's in charge range they're making it.)

There are plenty of things with long threat ranges, and now there are going to be even more ways to bring reserves into the field from new angles.  If you have bodies on the field, you limit the other side's ability to do this AND you make them choose between shooting something important, and shooting your screens.  Bonus points if your screens are something more threatening than Chaos Cultists or Brimstone Horrors.

4) Pre-Game CP spending Sprees May Get Attenuated
I think folks were happier to blow 3-5 CP before the game when they had 15-18 CP in 2,000 points.  That may still happen, but it may not be as much of a given.  Still, extra relics and warlord traits can be pretty useful, especially if any of those help refund CP.

5) Tying up vehicles in close combat is still going to be useful
On the one hand, I think we're all psyched that vehicles can shoot into melee.

On the other hand, there are a couple limits -
-heavy weapons aren't as accurate in close
-you can shoot at folks in engagement range
-you can nominate targets outside of engagement range
-you have to kill everyone in close if you want to fire at distant targets

So, you can't stop a vehicle from shooting by charging it, but you can still dictate its target priority.  You'll just have to make sure whatever you throw at the vehicle is tough enough to survive some shooting - you want to force the vehicle's commander to decide between trying to scrape you off with their guns, or falling back and committing another unit to taking care of the distraction.

6) Games Will Probably Be Smaller and Faster
If unit costs are changing (and look to be going up, if cultists going from 4 to 6 points is any indication) I suspect that armies are going to get a little smaller.

I'd say games will get faster, but that's only after we all get a firm grasp on the rules.

Conclusion
Obviously, this speculation is as good as the info we have - which is incomplete.  As with any speculation, there's a fair chance that we can look back and laugh.  It's probably healthy to do so.

That being said, I'm cautiously optimistic about 9th - I REALLY want to see the new detachment rules, because that's going to dictate how my Chaos lists change.

Monday, June 8, 2020

Alpha Legion Possessed - Testings Free Hugs, Further Thoughts - and Future

So, I managed get a game in and test out the Possessed as discussed previously.  I opted to bring the following -

The List

BATTALION 01
Sorcer w/ Jump Pack
-Mark of Nurgle
-Bolt Pistol/Force Staff
-Warp Time, Miasma of Pestilence

Demon Prince w/ Wings
-Pair of Claws, Warp Bolter
-Mark of Nurgle
-Smite, Diabolic Strength

18 Possessed w/ Mark of Nurgle

Greater Possessed - Mark of Nurgle

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists

BATTALION 02 - Pay CP for Devastation Battery detachment trait
Dark Apostle
-Prayer of -1 to Hit, Relic - Hydra's Wail
Warlord - Master of Diversion

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor
-Viper's Bite
-Chainfist
We Are Alpharius - Headhunter

8 Chaos Terminators
-Combi-plasma, Chainfist

16 Noise Marines w/ Sonic Blasters

2 Dark Disciples

10 Cultists
10 Cultists
10 Cultists

3 Obliterators - Mark of Slaanesh

The Big Idea
The possessed module is pretty much there - Warptime is there to get upfield, the Dark Apostle and Miasma are there for buffs, and Diabolic strength + the Greater possessed gets you to S8, which is nice.

The Noise Marines are there to help with screen-clearing.  Odds are good they'll be close to someone that's giving them a re-roll on 1's, and in a pinch you can go Veterans of the Long War + Endless Cacophony for hilarious carnage.

The Obliterators are the reason I took Devastation Battery - a buddy of mine clued me into it - if I don't go first, then I make the enemy think about eating 18 shots from Oblits at the end of the movement phase.

If you haven't looked at it again - it's at the end of the movement phase.  If someone deep-strikes on turn one, you get to potentially hose down someone that walked out of a pod and pointed a gun at you.  Odds are good that something walked into range that you want to shoot.  Frankly, I think it's probably worth 2 CP.

The terminator blob is there because sometimes things need to die behind the lines, and sometimes you want to keep the other army honest.  Frankly, I think this is about as good as it gets for chaos terminators.  Combi-plasma kills things, and has the range to abuse Endless Cacophony even if the second volley isn't a double-tap.

With respect to melee, the chainfist is about as good as it gets.  You lose a little accuracy, but gain the ability to engage whatever you want.  I'll take reliable damage for a couple more points.  Your other melee options are there for killing infantry, and that's pretty much it.

Cultists....are screens.  Occasionally they contribute.

The Test
I went up against a buddy's Black Templar brigade, which basically deploys mid-field and plays a nasty objective game with a lot of guns and melee punch.  And with drop pods.  The short version is this -

THE OPPOSITION
Helbrecht
Chaplain w/ Jump Pack, Crusader's Helm
Lieutenant w/ Powerfist, Mastercraft Bolter, Witchseeker Bolts, WL Trait to Deny the Witch
Vanguard Vet Squad (Bunch of stormshields, several thunderhammers, lots of pain)
Relic-bearing Servitors (the three BT-specific elite guys)
Sternguard Vets
4 squads of Incursors
2 Squads of Scouts
Multi-melta bike
2 Squads of Suppressors
Grav-cannon Devastators
3 Squads of Eliminators (2 las-fusil, sniper rifle on sarge)
2 Drop Pods (Sternguard in 1, Devs, Servitors, Helbrecht, Lieutenant in the other)

As you can see, there were a LOT of guns out there.  The only thing of his that HAD to deploy in his DZ was the Bike.  If you don't push them off objectives early, you have a hell of an uphill fight on objectives, and PS - dislodging Primaris marines from objectives is ANNOYING.

We played the scenario with 3 objectives across the middle.  Mercifully, I went first.  We called it at the end of round five, as I was ahead on objectives and while I was down to cultists and HQs, he was basically off the board.

HIGHLIGHTS -
Possessed Warp-timed it up the field and got a charge into the Vanguard Vets.  I don't need  a bunch of 3++ jerks with thunder hammers running around my lines.  I multi-charged into an Incursor squad just to make sure that I could get into some kind of fight.  Ultimately this fight drug on through round three, ending with the Possessed dead, the Incursors dead, and most of the Vanguard dead.  The Demon Prince accounted for the rest.

The Greater Possessed ate a squad, then tried to stop a multi-melta with its face.  Its face was not multi-melta proof.  At all.

The Noise Marines used Conceal on turn one to mess up his target priority, and the cultists in front them ate a reasonable number of bullets.  Which is fair enough, considering what VotLW and Endless Cacophony does to...um, anything you point it at in cover.  These guys accounted for significant numbers of enemy snipers and Incursors, which is probably why they died.

The Obliterators had terrible luck with saves, and 2/3 of them died in the first round of shooting to Suppressors, because clearly the dice gods hate painted models.  The last one managed to do reasonably well.

The Terminators accounted for his drop pods - the grav devs and Sternguard had to die ASAP, and the Terminators got that job.  Then they managed to land a bunch of wounds on Helbrecht in assault - which he promptly saved.  And then they returned the favor.  They absorbed a LOT of shooting before ultimately dying.

The Terminator Lord got the honor of capping Helbrecht at short range.  Viper's Kiss is 100% worth taking on that config.  The Lord then also found out the Lieutenant doesn't come with an invuln save, which was a lot funnier to me than the Lieutenant.  AP-4 on a 3+ means "red mist," apparently.

The Demon Prince buffed the Possessed, then cleaned up a few squads of Incursors, and made more saves than it had any right to do so.

Cultists - well, half of them died terribly, and the other half helped hold objectives.  Most importantly, they managed to help push his drop pods

The Lessions, and Further Brainstorming
Possessed Buffs - Honestly, Possessed are a volume-of-attacks unit.  First impression on buffs is this - You reliably want to get Demonic Strength and Miasma of Pestilence off on them.  While it's tempting to put both on one psyker, snipers are real and that's a big target. (Plus seriously, sorcerers aren't THAT durable.).

A note on Marks - while Miasma of Pestilence is great for an additional -1 to hit, rumors about 9th edition currently suggest that we might see modifiers capped at -1.  On a more firm/practical note, switching to the Mark of Slaanesh would allow us to get Slaaneshi heralds in for an advance-and-run aura, another +1S, and we'd switch to Delightful Agonies for 5+ to ignore wounds.  The perk is we can use that on all our shooters in the army.

Food for thought.

Noise Marines are hilarious.  I think anyone who's run them knows that.  The only safe way to kill them is "shoot them when you have no infantry within 24 inches" otherwise you're gonna lose something.

Obliterators are a bit random, but getting them into cover makes it just that more annoying to shift them.  That being said, in this list the only other thing that MIGHT soak anti-tank fire is the terminators - so these guys are competing with Noise Marines for Conceal, and it's going to be a matter of "who do I need alive more?"  That being said, I like the versatility of them in this list.

The terminators stay.  The only real question I've got is - do I think about going for an Emperor's Children Battalion? The main reason to do so is to get access to the 'Honor the Prince' stratagem, which means for 1CP one of my charge dice is a '6.'  Considering 9th is around the corner and is going to change detachments, I'm not 100% onboard with this approach.

Next Steps
I'm definitely going to paint up a Possessed squad - a full 20 - and finish up a Demon Prince conversion.  The Terminators have kind of been on the to-do list for a while, but can wait for a minute.

I have painted soooo many cultists.  So very many.  But frankly, they're going to be relevant for some time.