Batrep - Iron Hands vs. Black Templar at 2k. Paint Rounds FTW

It's been a minute - but I finally got enough of my Iron Hands painted to throw down.  So, I grabbed them and a camera.

Iron Hands

Battalion Detachment

Captain in Gravis Armor (warlord)

Captain w/ Storm Bolter, Power Sword

10x Space Marines (combi-plasma, plasma gun, missile launcher)

-Razorback (twin assault cannons)

10x Space Marines (combi-plasma, plasma gun, missile launcher)

-Razorback (twin assault cannons)

10x Space Marines (combi-plasma, plasma gun, missile launcher)

-Razorback (twin assault cannons)

5 Scouts

5 Scouts

Stormtalon gunship (assault cannons, skyhammers)

Stormtalon gunship (assault cannons, skyhammers)

Vanguard Detachment

Techmarine

Dreadnought (multi-melta, storm bolter)

Dreadnought (assault cannon, storm bolter)

Ironclad Dreadnought (hurricane bolter, chainfist, meltagun, assault launchers)

Admittedly, the dreads are a bit of "what I have on hand" more than anything else.

Black Templar

Damocles Command Rhino

Techmarine (warlord)

Emperor's Champion

Terminator Chaplain

5 Terminators (4x hammers/shields, sarge w/ lightning claws)

5 Terminators (4x hammers/shields, sarge w/ lightning claws)

10 Crusaders (meltagun, missile launcher)

10 Crusaders (meltagun, missile launcher)

5 Scouts

10 assault marines (2x flamers, axe/plasma pistol on sarge)

Predator (twin las, 2x lascannons)

Predator (twin las, 2x lascannons)

Scenario - Cleanse and Control

Deployment

 I end up choosing DZs, and realize I'm going second.  I deploy scouts at the edge of my DZ, and the gunships serve as additional deep-strike deterrent.  I set up around my objectives, and his warlord/CP generator set up on his.

BT Turn 01

 Rhinos advance and pop smoke.  His predators completely whiff against everything - bunch of rolls of 1-2 n his shooting and wounds, which keeps him from scoring first blood.  His assault marines drop in.

Orbital Bombardment

 I learn (the hard way) that the Damocles Rhino comes with one free orbital bombardment.  Which hurts.  Mortal wounds to the rhinos, dreads, and gunship.  Somehow the marines avoid the pain.

What were our orders again?

 His assault marines fail the assault.  Which is fine with me.

Iron Hands Turn 01

 I hold my ground and open fire.  My objectives are kinda sad - I've got to get across the board, and hold the objective right by my dreads/2x razorback squad for two turns. 

Bullet allergy

 The stormtalons shred the predator, so first blood goes to me

Scout vs Scout

 I shoot his five-man scout squad off the objective they were trying to hold.

BT Turn 02

 His Rhino unloads, his assault marines unload, and his dice finally cooperate and shoot one of my flyers off the board.

Even in death, I still serve pain

 His marines whiff the missile and meltagun against the dread, then dive into CQC with it in an attempt to deny my "hold for two turns" objective.

You got this, boss!

 His assault terminators fail the charge, but the chaplain makes it, and crushes a few skulls.

I had a wingman a minute ago

Iron Hand Turn 02

 I solve the assault problem, and move to contest/claim up the objective in his DZ.  Man, I drew some sad objectives this game.

BULLETS!

 My regular dread broke off the assault, and everyone else combined to shoot the crap out of his Crusader squads.  They died to a man.

Stalemate

 The tac squad tags the Gravis captain into the melee, and the chaplain lives.  Takes a couple slaps with a fist, though.

BT Turn 03

 His last squad of assault terminators drop in, and promptly flub their assault.

Whiff

 The fight continues, and his marines whiff the assault again.

Tyin' up everything

 His assault marines grind through a few dudes, then consolidate into everything.

Finale

At this point, we called it.  My plasma squads fail to do anything against his Terminators, and he's got a 7-2 lead on objectives at this point.  I'm out of CP and have to get across the board.  We figured that at this point, he could've kept me pinned in and/or killed a lot of stuff, while I wouldn't have been able to close the VP gap.

End Result - Iron Hands are glad it's a paint-round-only match.

Closing Thoughts
Assault Cannon Razorbacks & Tac Squads
Pros - the configuration I brought is reasonably well-rounded.  Twin assault cannons have a solid volume of fire, so moving isn't THAT much of a penalty.  Plasma is decent as long as there's a captain nearby for re-rolls - and captains aren't too terribly expensive.

Note that combat-squadding a tactical squad is probably giving up first turn, period.  Your tac marines will probably take two drops at that point.

Dreadnoughts
I think these guys are gonna get lascannons next time around.  I need more long-range guns, and while the multi-melta and assault cannon are nice, I could use some longer-ranged firepower.

Ironclads
I think the hurricane bolter and chainfist are the way to go.  You don't have a ton of attacks, so the seismic hammer's -1 to hit is a bit of a pain.  The Hurricane bolter lets you do something outside of assault.

Scouts
I think a squad or two of scouts is still worth including - they're not that expensive, and they provide a much-needed buffer against deep-striking units. 

Gunships
I like the speed and firepower.  They're not too hard to kill, though, so you need to bring plenty of targets.  I'm definitely getting paint on these guys soon.  Still mixed about the secondary weapons though - the heavy bolters are cheaper, but the skyhammer rockets would be nice vs. other flyers.

BT - Assault Terminators
Really, these remind me that I need to get mine assembled.  I got lucky because he flubbed his assault roles, but if these guys don't make the charge when they arrive, you have a few options -
1) run away
2) kill them
3) bury them in bodies
Otherwise, they'll get into assault.  I think a sarge with claws is a good addition to the TH/SS guys, since it gives you a handful more attacks to thin out crowds.

Las-Preds
They're expensive and mono-purposed, but very good at what they do.  Unless the dice hate them.

BT - 10-man squad comp
He ran them with a meltagun and missile launcher - I think going with a combi-weapon matching the special would help.  Then again, missile launchers remain a versatile choice.  You don't get the AP of the lascannon (or strength) but you get the ability to do something beyond dropping a ton of damage on a single target.

Damocles Command Rhino
I'm not sure I'd take it under 2k points, but it and a cheap HQ (like a techmarine) will give you the two HQ choices for a battalion, and give you another 2-3 CP over the course of the game as long as you hide the warlord in the back. 

You want a cheap warlord choice, and you want to hide them for the CP and sit this thing in the back.  Drop that orbital bombardment on turn 01, and then sit on an objective.  If you aren't going to sit a cheap warlord in there, skip it.  BUT, getting extra CP through the game is potentially useful.

Gravis Captain
Honestly, if you have a gunline, you could do worse for an HQ than this.  A minimal captain is about 40ish points more than this guy, but this dude WILL do some damage in CQC.  I'm pleasantly surprised with this dude. 

Army Tweaks for the future
I'm thinking of re-tooling the dreads.  My first thought is to change the vanguard detachment to be 2x lascannon dreads and some grav-chute Rievers for objective-grabbing.

Chaos Space Marines Codex - First Impressions - Alpha Legion

I had a Khorne Daemonkin list back in 7th - so I've a heap of old Chaos stuff I haven't really trotted out in 8th edition.  I have been a fan of the Alpha Legion's fluff from the Horus Heresy books, and thought that the Warlord trait of 'I AM ALPHARIUS' is hilariously in-character and troll-tastic.

So, I trotted out a list that I thought would fit with some of the KDK stuff I had, and try some new stuff in 8th.  My buddy and I were both trying out the new books, so we agreed to a 1500pt list.

Hydra Dominatus! Battalion
Demon Prince (warp bolter, 2x talons)
Demon Prince (wings, sword, talons)
Hellbrute (twin-las, power scourge)
Hellbrute (twin las, fist, combi-bolter)
11 Cultists (heavy stubber)
10 Cultists (heavy stubber)
5 Marines (missile launcher)
Defiler (reaper cannon, scourge, combi-flamer)
4 Bikers (2x meltaguns)
4 Bikers (2x meltaguns)
Heldrake (claws, bale flamer)

Black Templar
Grimaldus
Emperor's Champion
5 Assault Terminators (Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield)
5 Assault Terminators (Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield)
15-man Crusader Blob (fist, flamer)
5-man Crusader Squad (meltagun, multi-melta)
10 man Crusader Squad (meltagun, multi-melta)
Land Raider Crusader

The Battle, In Short
Due to good dice on my part, the Land Raider Crusader got wrecked turn one, between dreads and a biker squad.  The large Crusader Blob ended up dead in assault after that, and Grimaldus ended up staring down a bike squad and a Daemon Prince.

So, he promptly called for backup.  TH/SS guys deep-struck in on turn two, and then promptly failed their charges.  From there, his TH/SS guys wandered towards my DZ, trying to claim objectives and crushing the 5 guys with a missile launcher.  Cultists absorbed the charge, broke off, and he made a BUNCH of saves, even with  Death Hex stripping his saves.  Ultimately, my fast forces down-range managed to get linebreaker, and I drew some stupid-good objectives while he got a little hosed.

Highlights include -
-winged demon prince making an inordinate number of 5+ saves vs. the Emperor's Champion
-bikers are great for shooting, but not so much for assault
-land raider crusaders put out a stupid amount of dakka, but we already knew that

Lessons Learned
1) The Emperor's Champion is a Blender
He gets bonuses against characters AND monsters.  Characters that are monsters really, really need to stay the hell away from this guy.  S7 with re-rolling hits and wounds means if you get charged, you're going to die unless you're really good at making invulnerable saves. Like, really good.

2) Demon Prince Weapons
Skip the sword.  If you're bringing melee support in general, you want twin talons for the seven attacks.  Hitting on 2+ and wounding on a 2+ or 3+ with a -2AP for 2 damage is useful, and the volume of attacks helps.  I'm not sure about the axe, but I'm pretty sure I'm out on the sword.  Ditching two attacks for -3AP and 3 damage on your strikes seems iffy unless you're going after vehicles or monsters, and the axe's better strength, AP, and damage (even if it 'only' hits on a 3+) seems like a better call.

3) Assault Terminator weapons
These guys need help with accuracy and quantity of attacks - they will absolutely murder hefty targets, but struggle with numbers.  A Chaplain is always a good idea, because re-rolls on those 4+ thunder hammers is huge.  Additionally, I think giving the sarge Lightning Claws is a decent move - sarge will have a total of four attacks with re-rolling wounds.  It will help a bit if you end up running into hordes.

4) Alpha Legion - Army Composition
So, -1 to hit outside of 12" is hilarious.  Note also that it only works on bikes, infantry, and hellbrutes.  Demon Princes may not get mileage out of it, but as characters you should be able to position them so shooting isn't as big a deal.

So it brings up the question of "What do I bring outside of those?"  Because anything you bring that doesn't get the -1 to hit bonus is going to draw the long-range fire.  If you bring one thing, it gets all of it.  If you bring two, there's a split.  That's why I went with a Heldrake and a Defiler.

That's also why I effectively had two modules - a speedy one and a backfield one.  Cultists bubble-wrap the dreads, Defiler, and daemon prince while the bikes, winged prince, and heldrake push up.

Since I'm alpha legion, the winged prince starts out as warlord, and since I Am Alpharius applies, I can risk him without worrying about him getting ragged.  The other one serves as counterassault and re-roll buffs.

Batrep - Black Templars vs. Chaos Undecided

My comrade and I opted to go up to 2,000 points.  We knocked out the game prior to the release of the Codex: Space Marines, though agreed to use Black Templar Chapter Tactics.  Both of us realized those are kinda sick for deep-striking assault troops*, since 9 on a 2d6 with a re-roll is about a 50/50 shot.

Chaos Undecided

Battalion Detachment

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster

Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut - Warlord

Hellbrute w/ Reaper Autocannon, Flail

15 Poxwalkers

15 Poxwalkers

12 Cultists w/ Heavy Stubber

12 Cultists w/ Heavy Stubber

Foetid Bloat Drone

Foetid Bloat Drone

10 Hounds of Khorne

Maulerfiend w/ Lasher Tendrils

Superheavy Detachment

Traitor Knight w/ chainsword, thermal cannon, stubber, icarus cannon

Black Templar Battalion Detachment

Chaplain Grimaldus - Warlord

Emperor's Champion

5 Assault Terminators

6 Terminators w/ Assault Cannon

Sternguard squad

Cenobite Servitors

Crusader Squad - 5 men w/ plasma gun, plasma cannon

-Razorback w/ Twin Lascannon

Crusader Squad in a pod (9 guys, meltagun, fist, sword)

Crusader Squad in a pod (9 guys, meltagun, fist, sword)

The Scenario - Secure And Control (capture the flag)

Deployment - Search and Destroy (table quarters)

My Plan

So, I look at the army lists and realize I'm not going to first.  Second, I'm going to have a heap of deep-striking units to deal with.  Well, this is why I bring pox walkers and stuff - I'm going to need them to take up lots of space so I can try to dictate how he deep-strikes.  I know there's melta in his deep-striking squads, so I ensure that my big stuff (the greater demon and the knight) will be out of range on the first turn.  My hounds and herald go into the ruins close to the middle, while cultists and the Hellbrute hold my objective.  The hellbrute is placed so the Razorback can't see it, AND it denies my opponent an easy deep-striking zone, because if he can deep-strike there and land more than one unit I think I lose.

Deployment - Chaos Castles Up

 His objective is in the building in his table quarter - not that you can see it, but there's a five-man crusader squad with cenobites sitting on that objective.  His las-back is in ruins, and his sternguard are at the middle line.

BT turn 1 assault

 He opts to bring in just one squad on turn one - terminators in the middle, which promptly dig into my bubble wrap.  His las-back knocks some wounds off my Knight.

Chaos Turn 01 - Counter-Assault and Desultory Gunfire

 ...so naturally, I'm going to go handle the problem.  His other stuff will come in when it comes in; I just need to start dealing with it now.  My Bloat Drones start pushing up to try to deny more deep-striking space.

Khorne Dogs vs Sternguard

 The Bloodthirster, Herald, Maulerfiend and Hounds burst out of cover and into his guys.  The Herald gets roughed up, and the Bloodthirster kills enough stuff to keep my Maulerfiend from attacking.

Templar Turn 2 - In Which More Terminators Arrive

 So his assault terminators arrive, and Grimaldus and Friends (TM) arrive as well.  Note that those Terminators are standing where a Bloat Drone used to be.

Grimaldus Charges in to Buff His Comrades - 2CP Later He's Dead

 He charges Grimaldus in - I spend CP to ensure that the Bloodthirster gets to swing.  As this happens before the Bloat Throne gets used like a pinata, this gets me both First Blood and Slay The Warlord, which is crucial.

Chaos Turn 02

 Alright, it's a furball now!

Knight vs. Terminators + terrible rolls

 The Knight decides that Terminators won't be that bad.  Turns out the knight can't roll dice for spit.

PLAY! PLAY!...and the combat goes on

 This combat is going to go on for quite some time....

Bloodthirster remains happy

 Bloodthirster controls the middle, poxwalkers work to slowly grind away at marines and terminators.

Turn 03 - Emperor's Champion Arrives

 His champion drops - and his terminators in the middle drop my Bloodthirster.  The Heralds has gone back into cover with the cultists, since he's sitting on about 3 wounds, and I want to deny him the VP.

Knight is SAD

 My opponent makes an inordinate number of saves, and the knight loses a chunk of wounds.

Middle Battle continues, minus Bloodthirster and friends

 The middle is one hell of a furball.

Chaos Turn 3 - Knight disengages, Puppy charges, Bloat Drones Pushes

 The Maulerfiend, having failed a charge earlier, decides to go handle the drop pod - it also eyes the razorback meaningfully.

Still at it in the middle

 Man that's a lot of zombies.  Some of them used to be space marines.

Templar Turn 04

 I kill his drop pod on his turn.  The Emperor's Champion heads off in search of cultists/herald, and his Crusader buddies head towards the middle.

2 wounds left - BUT ALIVE!

 The knight finally finishes combat, heavily damaged but technically alive.  It did about 21 wounds to that last guy.

Chaos Turn 4

 The Puppy slaps the razroback a little, and melee continues.  My bloat drone has, by this point, traded itself for the Crusader squad.  It got in, fired, and then ate an overcharged plasma volley that cost the plasma gunner his life before the fistfight started.  The plasma cannoneer smashes the drone, then dies in the explosion.  It's the stuff of legends, except I doubt the Cenobite servitors would actually tell the story.

BT Turn 05

 At this point it's getting close to winding down - time isn't on my side.  The combat in the middle continues, but the Crusader squad does a lot better at killing zombies than terminators due to volume vs. quality of attacks.

Wrapping up

I just need to hold one objective - at this point, the Knight is (somehow) still alive, and the Maulerfiend is in position to grab his objective, so even if I end up having to handle troops and possibly lose mine, I've got another one.

Emperor's Champion vs. Cultists

 The cultists actually thought they could beat the Emperor's Champion.  They DID knock off two wounds in shooting though.  And force a number of saves.

Endgame

 You don't see the Maulerfiend in this picture because it's sitting on his objective.  At this point, the survivors are -
CHAOS
12 Cultists
Hellbrute
Knight (2 wounds remaining)

BLACK TEMPLAR
Crusader Squad
Couple of Sternguard

Razorbacks - not so hot in melee

Maulerfriend on BT objective

Closing Thoughts
1) Bubble Wrap is your friend
Those two poxwalker squads were crazy useful - in large part because they managed to take up space.  Same goes for the cultists squads, to an extent - they're cheap, the fulfill my troops requirements, and can hold objectives in the backfield.

2) Black Templar Chapter Tactics
Deep striking assaulty troops are going to be money for these guys.  Having a 50/50 shot at making the charge off the bat is disgusting.  I think the real winners with this are going to be Terminators (either variety) and Assault Marines with jump packs.

Regular terminators are versatile - and god help you if they get into cover and you have to shift them.  Assault terminators love showing up nearby, though if you're going hammer-heavy you may want a Chaplain or something else to give you some re-rolls.

3) Knights - Mixed Feelings
Turns out that Thunder Hammer assault terminators are rough on knights, especially if he has some hot dice on the saves.  That being said, the thermal cannon was a bit underwhelming - then again, I didn't have great targets for it this game; the razorback managed to make saves and otherwise I killed a few terminators.

That being said, the ability to walk out of combat, shoot, and assault again make knights stupid mobile and productive.  Which frankly, they need to be, since that one was almost 500 points.

4) Khorne Dogs - kinda sad
I'm not super-impressed with them this time around - with the change to WS, they aren't as hard to hit in melee.  I do like the bonus attacks/strength on the charge, but they really need to hang out next to a herald to get the +1S after that.

More testing is needed, but I'm not as psyched about them as I was in 7th.  Then again, I was also fighting power armor marines with a decent volume of attacks.

5) Foetid Bloat Drones - Mainstays
They're mobile, hard to hit, and durable.  I'd have a hard time leaving home without these or Helldrakes for the mobility.

Up Next
I expect the release of the Chaos codex and the new SM book will shake things up a bit.  I like the versatility of Chaos Undecided, though I'm thinking about a Sorcerer on a Disc of Tzeentch - things like Warptime are silly, and the extra-heretical part of me really, really wishes I could use Warptime on a Bloodthirster - but I'll have to settle for using it on a Hellbrute or Maulerfriend.

*I'm assuming we did the deep-strike reserves correctly - if deploying a squad in a transport counts as placing one unit on the field, I'm assuming it's the same for reserves, and that's how we agreed to play it.  I should probably RTFM or something to be sure, but it seemed logical at the time.

8th Impressions - On Chaos, Defilers, and Land Raider Crusaders

This is a bit late - I apologize for lack of pictures, but I have a couple good reasons for not logging via pics - first, there were a heap of proxies, and second, the mission summary is basically 'he drove across the field and shot/assault me.'

The Armies
Death Guard Battalion Detachment
Typhus
Malignant Plaguecaster
Noxious Blightbringer
Hellbrute (Reaper A/C, flail)
16x Pox walkers
16x pox walkers
12 Cultists w/ heavy stubber
7x Death Guard (sarge w/ fist, and a plasma rifle)
2x Foetid Bloat Drone
Defiler (Reaper cannon, defiler scourge)

Black Templar Battalion Detachment
Grimaldus
Emperor's Champion
Cenobite Servitors
Crusader Squad (handful of bobs w/ plasma gun, plasma cannon)
Crusader Squad x11 (axe, fist, meltagun)
Crusader Squad x13ish (axe, fist meltagun)
Land Speeder (Typhoon Launcher, heavy bolter)

Scenario - Big Guns Never Tire
4 objectives
First Blood
Slay the Warlord
Bonus points for killing heavy support

The Battle, in Summary
We set up across from each other - his small Crusader squad sat on an objective to one side, while his Crusaders deployed centrally.

I deployed the Defiler and Death Guard on one objective, with the Hellbrute and Cultists held another.  Pox Walkers deployed as a screen, and the support characters stayed in the middle.  My Bloat Drones deployed out of LOS, opposite his objective camping squad out on my far left flank.

The battle played out over a couple of areas -

BATTLE FOR THE FAAAR OBJECTIVE
Bloat Drones vs. small crusader squad intially - my guys advanced across the field and got into firing range on turn one, and wrought havoc on his squad.  This drew off a Land Raider Crusader - and its Crusader Squad, while the Emperor's Champion road the Crusader into my lines.

The Drones basically cleaned up the shooty crusader squad.  Being able to break off combat and fire meant they ended up killing off the other crusader squad.  One drone ended up dead, and the other ended up on the objective.

Land Raider Crusader Rush
So, I learned that Land Raiders can put out an obscene amount of firepower.  Before that, we learned that Land Speeders are really squishy - the Defiler stood still and ripped it out of the sky in round one.

The Land Raiders moved up and softened up the Pox Walker screen - and between the loss of the screen and advancing to shoot, I ended up losing my Death Guard to the crusader squad and Grimaldus.  The Defiler waded in and proceeded to rip them up over a few turns - so they fell back and boarded the Crusader, only for the Defiler to run that down and blow it up.  It died in the resulting explosion, but I'm ok with that.

Typhus and the Emperor's Champion ended up in a fight - which is to say the Champion knocked a wound off, and then Typhus annihilated the champion.

The Hellbrute died to a withering hail of Land Raider firepower.

The psykers actually get some mad points for smiting a number of wounds off the LRCs - without screening units, and with some good rolls (including Typhus knocking off 5 wounds with a single lucky smite roll) one Land Raider was wounded, and the other was softened up enough that the Defiler managed to assault it down.

End Result
Chaos Victory (called turn 4 between time and battlefield situation)
Marines had a single Crusader left

Chaos had cultists, all three characters, pox walkers, and a bloat drone.

Reflections
1) Land Raider Crusaders - lotta guns
Seriously, between the twin assault cannon and hurricane bolters, they can throw a bucket of dice.  Recommend that you take the multi-melta, because otherwise you're plinking off 1 damage at a time.  That being said, they can fire heavy weapons without penalty, which is crucial becase, y'know, it's an assault transport.

I think two of them in 1500 is a bit all-or-nothing, but they have a lot of firepower-  and also blow up in grand fashion.

2) Land Speeders are squishy
I think 150 for a speeder with a heavy bolter and typhoon launcher is a bit pricey - you need a bunch of targets to make that sorta/kinda worthwhile, and in general they just aren't that hard to kill.  I'd lean towards heavy bolters (standoff range and low cost) or heavy flamers (fire after advancing, auto-hit, and painful while being cheap)

3) Real cost of Cenobites
My opponent put it well - "It's not that they're six points, it's that they're three bodies in the crusader."  They're cheap because they're easy to kill, but it's a pretty solid buff.

4) Defilers are fun counterassault / shooty
Defilers are still a multi-role unit - and that means you're getting versatility in exchange for not using all your capabilities all the time.  You have a heap of firepower and durability, but accuracy isn't your strong suit (WS/BS 4+ is...um...not above-average?)

I'm pretty pleased with the loadout I picked - if I'd had the points, I would have tossed a combi-weapon on (combi-bolter if I'd had one more spare point, otherwise combi-flamer).

The scourge is crucial if you think you're going to get into a fight - you've got three base attacks (albeit, they're S16, 1d6 damage punches) and your WS starts at 4+.  The scourge gets you three more S12 swings at 2 damage each, and you need the volume (or supporting units nearby.

The reaper autocannon and twin heavy bolter cost about the same - if you think you're going to move more I think I'd go twin heavy bolter because it's more dice.  That being said, S7 is on the stronger side of anti-vehicle firepower.

Don't forget they regenerate a wound a turn, too.  It helps if the enemy is chipping away at them.

5) Plague Marines - shoot, don't punch
I went with that loadout because it's what I had out of the Dark Imperium box.  In retrospect, I could've gotten another plasma gun instead of the powerfist.

The melee capability is so-so at best on these guys - just one attack each is kinda 'meh', even if you hit on 3+ and re-roll wound rolls of '1'.

That being said, T5, 3+ saves, and Disgustingly Resilient mean they're a pain to sift out of cover - these guys laughed off a couple rounds of Land Raider shooting from cover.

6) Typhus + Pox Walkers + Support
Pushing Pox Walkers up to T4 is pretty significant - the hop from T3 to T4 makes a hefty difference against small arms.

Typhus himself is slow - if he's buffing Pox Walkers, he's walking behind them.  You want the Noxious Blightbringer to help with pushing them up the field, and you'll benefit from the Malignant Plaguecaster's power of "You take -1 to hit rolls against target unit" power.

Typhus is also kinda nasty in melee.  He technically has a pistol in his Destroyer Hive, but the manreaper has solid strength and 3 damage per hit on top of his stupid WS 2+.

7) SMITE!
Between the two psykers I had, I could fire off four 'SMITE!' in a turn.  That being said, the limiting factor is targeting - they absolutely HAVE to hit the closest target, so your enemy gets a vote in what you can smite.

That being said, Mortal Wounds vs. harder targets (like Land Raiders, for example) are much more significant than mortal wounds vs. infantrymen.

I don't think Smite Spam is going to be crazy nasty, but you can potentially do some damage.

8) Foetid Bloat Drones
These guys were MVPs.  I'd recommend deploying them in pairs.  They excel at murdering infantry - high toughness, numerous wounds and a good save mean they can weather small arms fire, and their sprays (combined with the ability to break off of a counterassault and spray again) are disgusting.

The speed is great period, but especially in a Death Guard list - it's pretty much your only speedy unit.

In Summary
Land Raiders hurt.  Foetid Bloat Drones are awesome, especially in a Death Guard list.  And seriously, everyone, bring some cheap screens for your army.

Back to it in 8th - First Impressions of 'nids, Templar and Guard

So I'm a minute behind folks, but I had to open up some time and dig the old guard out. Well, except for the celebratory Tyrannofex and Tervigon models.  My old buddy and I got together and threw down.  Lists were below -

Tyranids - Battalion Detachment
Tervigon
Tyranid Prime (whip/sword, devourer)
Broodlord
3 Hive Guard (impaler cannons)
3 Venomthropes
20 Termagants (10 devourer, 10 fleshborer)
20 Termagants (10 devourer, 9 fleshborder)
7 Genestealers
Tyrannofex (fleshborer hive)
2x Carnifexes (each w/ 2x Deathspitters, mace tail)

Imperial Forces - Battalion, Superheavy Detachments
Chaplain Grimaldus
IG Commander
2 Commissars
Infantry Squad (Grenade launcher, heavy bolter)
50 Conscripts
Crusader Squad (10 Initiates, 10 neophytes, flamer, powerfist, power sword)
Leman Russ (battle cannon, lascannon, 2 heavy bolters)
Baneblade (additional 4x lascannon, 4x twin heavy bolter)

Scenario - Retrieval

Short Version -
I should've brought more big guns, maybe skipped an HQ choice - turns out that Baneblades HURT.  The Venomthropes bought me a couple turns of defense versus shooting, but I didn't bring enough long-range shooting to cripple it.  By the end of turn 3, I was sitting on one objective, and he handily had two, between the Baneblade and the tattered remains of the Crusader squad.

Impressions on 8th
Overall, I'm a fan.  The rules got streamlined, but thanks to the myriad org charts in the main book (and the faction keywords) you still have some solid freedom in how you build your forces.  Command Points are pretty useful - we both burned through the bulk of ours in three turns, but part of that is getting used to them.

Scenarios with the alternating deployment are going to take some getting used to - horde armies will generally NOT have first turn unelss they can seize.

Tyranid Impressions
Tervigon - it pretty much needs to go along with a couple blobs of termagants.  Replenishing a heap of 'em is nice, and re-rolls to 1's on shooting mean that you end up with about a 60% hit rate, which is great alongside devourers.  That, and The Horror is HILARIOUS, especially alongisde venomthropes.

Tyranid Prime - cheapest synapse HQ choice.  It's the buff HQ for warriors, which I didn't take.

Broodlord - he's disgusting in combat, he gives 'stealers a +1 in melee (effectively bumping them to WS 2+) and is a psyker.

Hive Guard - bring impaler cannons.  S8, AP-2, and 1D3 damage without needing LOS?  Give 'em synapse support, sit back, and start knocking wounds off vehicles.

Venomthropes - MVPs.  -1 to hit at range is huge.  Expect them to draw fire, but a minimum-sized brood WILL absorb some fire.  I think these are going to be in most 'nid lists.  I suppose they'd be ok in melee, assuming they lived long enough to get there.

Termagants - They're cheap, and need to be brought in bulk.  Devourers are a solid upgrade if you're gonna bring a large group; otherwise they're basically chumps with pistols.  I'd go for either a large group with some guns hidden in it.  I'd think about taking them as a tiny MSU for a troops tax, but rippers are cheaper.

Genestealers - they're still nasty, and they're cheap.  However, I didn't bring enough of them to make a difference this time out.

Tyrannofex - fleshborer hives are hilarious, and would be even more hilarious if I ever had a good chance to stand still and fire it twice.

Carnifexes - These guys aren't super-durable - but they have some options.  I think you're either going pure melee (and deciding whether crushing claws are worth the penalty to hit), volume of fire (grab devourers or deathspitters; the big difference is AP and a point of strength), or big gun + little guns.

Black Templar Impressions
Grimaldus - this guy (and chaplains in general) are pretty nasty with re-rolls to hit; Grim gives Black Templars extra attacks on 6s.  Also, gives 'em LD9, which is pretty useful for guys that are running across the field.

Crusader Blobs - These guys can crank out some attacks, what with chainswords/combat blades and pistols.  They can take a heavy weapon or power weapon, but with 1 base attack (and the fact they're probably moving) I'm not sure if I'd use this option.  Not sure what special I'd choose, they're all nasty.  They do need some good leadership, though - and Grimaldus provides that.  You can always go for the smaller squads and take a heavy and special, too.

Imperial Guard Impressions
IG Commander - command squads got a re-work; now if you want orders (and a cheap HQ) it's just one dude running around yelling at guardsmen and telling them to be a little more useful.  See also: sniper bait.

Commissars - their big trick is making sure that your guys don't run - mostly by shooting one of them in the morale phase.  You get one per elite slot.

Infantry Squads - so, now you're stuck with 10 guys with a special and heavy.  It simplifies things from the army-building side, but you're less durable.  They're cheap, and probably exist to sit on an objective with heavy weapons.

Conscripts - oh, they're gonna die by the fistful.  And a commissar is going to shoot one of 'em a turn.  Then again, these guys exist to fire off great heaps of lasgun shots.  The larger squads are also unlikely to ever grab cover.  Also, seriously? GET A COMMISSAR.  Because otherwise you're gonna remove fistfuls of these guys every turn if they're between the enemy and an objective.

Leman Russ - big guns, hard to kill - harder if it stays at long range.  Battle cannons are one of the many former blast weapons that now fire a random number of shots that hurt.  It makes them nasty against larger targets...

Baneblade - OUCH.  So, the main gun is a 3-damage gun that fires 2d3 shots a turn.  What used to be a pie plate of doom is now a humongous anti-tank weapon.  The demolisher cannon is its little brother - and you can still buy sponsons.  The tank puts out a TON of shits, especially since what used to be twin-linked is now just more shots.  That being said, note that the tank does NOT have a rule that lets it move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty.  BUT, if you get it into melee, it can disengage with penalty, shoot at things in melee, or just hit them with tank treads at like S9 or so.

As a former super-heavy, note that it has a heap of wounds, but after you've done a little more than a dozen wounds to it, it drops from BS4+ to BS5+, at which point it's kinda sad.

Next Steps for 'nids
1) Get more venomthropes
2) test Trygons - choosing when to arrive from reserves is awesome
3) test warriors - synapse is extra important for shooters, since instinctive behavior cuts down your options for shooting/charging
4) Exocrines are gonna be fun

Tyranid MC-Heavy with Venomthropes

I apologize as it's been a while since I've posted; the Warmachine league's been in motion and I've been busy hacking away at that. Additionally, I've gotten a little 'eh' about running the same Tyranid army over and over again. I borrowed a Stelek army, the Venomthrope list in particular. It consists of:

Hive Tyrant; 2x Devourerers, Adrenal Glands, Paroxysm & Leech Essence
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
10 Termagants w/ Devourers
10 Termagants w/ Devourers
Tervigon w/ Catalyst
Tervigon w/ Catalyst
Harpy w/ Cluster Spines, TL Heavy Venom Cannon
Harpy w/ Cluster Spines, TL Heavy Venom Cannon
Tyrannofex w/ Cluster Spines, Rupture Cannon
Tyrannofex w/ Cluster Spines, Rupture Cannon
Carnifex w/ 2x TL Devourers, Adrenal Glands, Frag Spines

I admit it's got some stuff I'm not used to, like spending for Devourers on the Termagants and actually running a shooty-fex. On the other hand, I'm not used to being without Hive Guard and the Adrenal/Toxin glands on the Tervigons.

My opponent was one of my old disciples (assuming he doesn't mind me calling him that) and rolled with a good ol' Black Templar double Crusader list. It was something like:

Emperor's Chump w/ Preferred Enemy Vow
Marshal w/ hammer, shield, artificer armor
5 Terminators w/ Furious Charge (4 claws, one hammer/shield)
5 Terminators w/ Furious Charge (4 claws, one hammer/shield)
9-man Crusader Squad (Fist, Meltagun, 2x Newbs); Rhino
9-man Crusader Squad (Fist, Meltagun, 2x Newbs); Rhino
7-man Crusader Squad (Plamsa gun, lascannon)
MM/HF Speeder
MM/HF Speeder
Land Raider Crusader
Land Raider Crusader

Scenario: Annihilation
Setup: Dawn of War

Deployment

He set up the objective-camping Crusader Squad on a hill with a good, central shooting position, as he rolled to go first. I set up the Tervigons and the Hive Tyrant behind some cover. Since he's got the speed, I'm fine with going second. He's left his mechanized assets in reserve, because he might as well set up to react to my deployment, as my guys are much slower. I opt to not even try to seize the initiative.

Black Templar Turn 1

Fairly stock BT deployment: he puts the speeders as far downfield as he can, and keeps his troop transports in a central position. He decides that he'd rather put his objective-camping squad to use, and moves them up.

Tyranid Turn 1

Here's Tyranid deployment. I try to keep it central, angling a little towards one flank.

My shooting ends up exploding the speeder on the right, and I manage to shake up the speeder on the left. That's all my shooting does, but I'll take it. The Tervigons crap out a forward screen, as I think putting the Devourer-gants into that duty is a waste of some anti-infantry firepower.

Black Templar Turn 2

He boosts th speeder over to the flank, and gets the save. His objective-sitting squad hoofs it up the field, and that's about that.

Tyranid Turn 2

Of all things, the forward Termagant squad glances his speeder once, gets through the cover save, and immobilizes it. This is somewhat inconvenient for a fast skimmer that moved flat-out...it's vaguely anti-climatic as I'd positioned a fair amount of shooting to kill that thing off. My anti-vehicle shooting does crap-all past that, though my left-side squad of Devourer-gants and the Carnifex reduce the objective squad to a lascannon and plasma gun. They promptly flub their morale check, in dice luck that's going to be all too common for my opponent this time around.

Black Templar Turn 3

He moves up, popping smoke on the Rhino on my right flank. His other Rhino promptly immobilizes itself on terrain. Land Raider Crusaders disgorge their cargo and open fire, knocking some wounds off the Harpy on my right, and the Plasma gunner blows a termagant to hell.

Then, the dice make themselves known. The venomthrope dangerous terrain checks kill three terminators on their way in, then Terminators do what Termiantors do to anything they touch in close combat.

Tyranid turn three goes something like this:

Terminators on the left flank go away under a heap of devourer fire; two of them on the left flank go away. In my excitment at his ability to roll 1's repeatedly at armor saves, I forgot to take a picture. The others turn their guns on his disembarked marines, and it becomes a VERY inhospitable place as there's one plasmagunner left from one squad, and the other squad has a wounded Marshal, a meltagun, a Neophyte and a couple other space-bobs.

Black Templar Turn 4

The remaining two terminators get themselves dead because they have no Frag Grenades, and fourteen termagants are apparently angry. He puts more gunfire into my carnifex and the right-side harpy; they end up with one wound each. He's also unable to roll anything more than 1's to move his half-strength Crusader Squad; this includes the difficult terrain AND the run. Freakin' wow. He throws the other Crusader squad into my right flank and KOs the squad there. Big shock.

Tyranid Turn 4

The wounded carnifex breaks into a screaming run, finds itself a land raider, inflicts four penetrating hits on it and kills it. His commander eats two wounds and falls on a pair of 1's, and a withering barrage of devourer fire and templates kill them off.

The harpy on the right (which is conspicuously absent from this pictures) flew over that Crusader squad, took a spore mine dump on it, killed some, took a shot with cluster spines, scattered the spines onto itself, wounded itself, and killed itself. EPIC FAIL.

The Tyrannofex wanders into the survivors of that squad. It eats a couple of wounds, then steps on the Emperor's Chump repeatedly.

Final

He has a Land Raider Crusader and Rhino left at the end. This has been one of the most comprehensive crub-stomps I've seen, and honestly? It was the dice. I've never seen that many 1's that fast for armor saves so often. He played it pretty much correctly, though when you get down to it Double Land Raider Crusader + Terminators = straightforward plan. I throw up termagant screens, hope they'll hold, try to take out Termiantors before they can do too much damage.

Thoughts on the Tyranid Army

I'm beginning to see some of the logic behind this army. The Venomthropes were inordinately effective with regards to forcing dangerous terrain checks, but costing the enemy extra attacks and giving me cover saves is nice. After the game, he wondered if he would've been better off trying to potshot them with a lascannon, but I'm not too sure, since the answer is 'go to ground for the 3+' if it's not 'hide behind something scary.'

That IS a lot of monstrous creature love. The Harpies are the least durable, and their speed is more of a 'rapid response' thing than a 'look at me I'm fast!' thing. The thing is, their firepower is somewhat comparable to the Tyrannofex, but they're only useful for the suppressing aspect on vehicles. Sometimes, shutting the guns up is enough. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by the Harpies. I expect to have pictures of them up eventually, as they're now on the paint bench.

Devourer Termagants are a NASTY anti-infantry shooty force. Even at BS3, that's still 30 S4 shots. THey don't go on the front lines, but since they don't have enough AP to make it worthwhile.

I can even see the point of the Carnifex; the shooting is lovely and there's that whole S10-against-vehicles thing that's nice. That's one of the downsides of thea rmy; the Tyrannofex guns are the only real way to kill vehicles at range, but that's enough Devourerers to say 'slow down a little there,' and you can punch the crap out of them in a pinch.

Final

I'll be curious to test this army against other matchups, as I feel this would've been closer had he not rolled a crap-ton of ones. I would've had to commit monstrous creatures to close combat, and probably taken more losses. I know that's a pretty solid Black Templar build, but sometimes the dice just kill you, hard.