Back to it in 8th - First Impressions of 'nids, Templar and Guard

So I'm a minute behind folks, but I had to open up some time and dig the old guard out. Well, except for the celebratory Tyrannofex and Tervigon models.  My old buddy and I got together and threw down.  Lists were below -

Tyranids - Battalion Detachment
Tervigon
Tyranid Prime (whip/sword, devourer)
Broodlord
3 Hive Guard (impaler cannons)
3 Venomthropes
20 Termagants (10 devourer, 10 fleshborer)
20 Termagants (10 devourer, 9 fleshborder)
7 Genestealers
Tyrannofex (fleshborer hive)
2x Carnifexes (each w/ 2x Deathspitters, mace tail)

Imperial Forces - Battalion, Superheavy Detachments
Chaplain Grimaldus
IG Commander
2 Commissars
Infantry Squad (Grenade launcher, heavy bolter)
50 Conscripts
Crusader Squad (10 Initiates, 10 neophytes, flamer, powerfist, power sword)
Leman Russ (battle cannon, lascannon, 2 heavy bolters)
Baneblade (additional 4x lascannon, 4x twin heavy bolter)

Scenario - Retrieval

Short Version -
I should've brought more big guns, maybe skipped an HQ choice - turns out that Baneblades HURT.  The Venomthropes bought me a couple turns of defense versus shooting, but I didn't bring enough long-range shooting to cripple it.  By the end of turn 3, I was sitting on one objective, and he handily had two, between the Baneblade and the tattered remains of the Crusader squad.

Impressions on 8th
Overall, I'm a fan.  The rules got streamlined, but thanks to the myriad org charts in the main book (and the faction keywords) you still have some solid freedom in how you build your forces.  Command Points are pretty useful - we both burned through the bulk of ours in three turns, but part of that is getting used to them.

Scenarios with the alternating deployment are going to take some getting used to - horde armies will generally NOT have first turn unelss they can seize.

Tyranid Impressions
Tervigon - it pretty much needs to go along with a couple blobs of termagants.  Replenishing a heap of 'em is nice, and re-rolls to 1's on shooting mean that you end up with about a 60% hit rate, which is great alongside devourers.  That, and The Horror is HILARIOUS, especially alongisde venomthropes.

Tyranid Prime - cheapest synapse HQ choice.  It's the buff HQ for warriors, which I didn't take.

Broodlord - he's disgusting in combat, he gives 'stealers a +1 in melee (effectively bumping them to WS 2+) and is a psyker.

Hive Guard - bring impaler cannons.  S8, AP-2, and 1D3 damage without needing LOS?  Give 'em synapse support, sit back, and start knocking wounds off vehicles.

Venomthropes - MVPs.  -1 to hit at range is huge.  Expect them to draw fire, but a minimum-sized brood WILL absorb some fire.  I think these are going to be in most 'nid lists.  I suppose they'd be ok in melee, assuming they lived long enough to get there.

Termagants - They're cheap, and need to be brought in bulk.  Devourers are a solid upgrade if you're gonna bring a large group; otherwise they're basically chumps with pistols.  I'd go for either a large group with some guns hidden in it.  I'd think about taking them as a tiny MSU for a troops tax, but rippers are cheaper.

Genestealers - they're still nasty, and they're cheap.  However, I didn't bring enough of them to make a difference this time out.

Tyrannofex - fleshborer hives are hilarious, and would be even more hilarious if I ever had a good chance to stand still and fire it twice.

Carnifexes - These guys aren't super-durable - but they have some options.  I think you're either going pure melee (and deciding whether crushing claws are worth the penalty to hit), volume of fire (grab devourers or deathspitters; the big difference is AP and a point of strength), or big gun + little guns.

Black Templar Impressions
Grimaldus - this guy (and chaplains in general) are pretty nasty with re-rolls to hit; Grim gives Black Templars extra attacks on 6s.  Also, gives 'em LD9, which is pretty useful for guys that are running across the field.

Crusader Blobs - These guys can crank out some attacks, what with chainswords/combat blades and pistols.  They can take a heavy weapon or power weapon, but with 1 base attack (and the fact they're probably moving) I'm not sure if I'd use this option.  Not sure what special I'd choose, they're all nasty.  They do need some good leadership, though - and Grimaldus provides that.  You can always go for the smaller squads and take a heavy and special, too.

Imperial Guard Impressions
IG Commander - command squads got a re-work; now if you want orders (and a cheap HQ) it's just one dude running around yelling at guardsmen and telling them to be a little more useful.  See also: sniper bait.

Commissars - their big trick is making sure that your guys don't run - mostly by shooting one of them in the morale phase.  You get one per elite slot.

Infantry Squads - so, now you're stuck with 10 guys with a special and heavy.  It simplifies things from the army-building side, but you're less durable.  They're cheap, and probably exist to sit on an objective with heavy weapons.

Conscripts - oh, they're gonna die by the fistful.  And a commissar is going to shoot one of 'em a turn.  Then again, these guys exist to fire off great heaps of lasgun shots.  The larger squads are also unlikely to ever grab cover.  Also, seriously? GET A COMMISSAR.  Because otherwise you're gonna remove fistfuls of these guys every turn if they're between the enemy and an objective.

Leman Russ - big guns, hard to kill - harder if it stays at long range.  Battle cannons are one of the many former blast weapons that now fire a random number of shots that hurt.  It makes them nasty against larger targets...

Baneblade - OUCH.  So, the main gun is a 3-damage gun that fires 2d3 shots a turn.  What used to be a pie plate of doom is now a humongous anti-tank weapon.  The demolisher cannon is its little brother - and you can still buy sponsons.  The tank puts out a TON of shits, especially since what used to be twin-linked is now just more shots.  That being said, note that the tank does NOT have a rule that lets it move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty.  BUT, if you get it into melee, it can disengage with penalty, shoot at things in melee, or just hit them with tank treads at like S9 or so.

As a former super-heavy, note that it has a heap of wounds, but after you've done a little more than a dozen wounds to it, it drops from BS4+ to BS5+, at which point it's kinda sad.

Next Steps for 'nids
1) Get more venomthropes
2) test Trygons - choosing when to arrive from reserves is awesome
3) test warriors - synapse is extra important for shooters, since instinctive behavior cuts down your options for shooting/charging
4) Exocrines are gonna be fun

A Wee Update: What's Next on the 40k Front

Here are my goals for the time being: I would like to put up at least a post a week in this blog. I enjoy blogging about the hobby (I make a pretense of being a teacher, and I enjoy spreading knowledge and discussing little plastic army men).

Current Army Project

Currently, I've been playing heavy with the Tyranids. Despite the utter curb-stomping of the previous game (sharp opponent + solid enemy army list + inability to roll well = DEATH) I enjoy the TMC/Venomthrope Stelek list.

I've got a Carnifex in the works on the bench (gotta convert the arms, then attach them) and I'm pondering ways to convert up Venomthropes. I like the idea of poison-cloud-bleching bugs, though I think I'm going to go for more of a walking smoke-belching factory than the floaty tentacle thing.

I also have the remainder of my Hive Tyrant's arm bits (wings/scything talons) to complete painting. Pictures will eventually be forthcoming, but at the moment I'm not sure I have access to a solid camera. I'll sort that when I sort it.

Up Next: Power Armor

A while back, I'd contemplated starting up a Space Wolf army, and a Blood Angel army, and so on and so forth. At this point, I've acquired a few boxes of Thousand Sons marines, most of the armor I need, and I have a fair amount of other stuff (then I got Indoctrinated* by Warmachine...).

I intend to make this a work of love with conversions, as I'm a big fan of the Thousand Sons sculpt and fluff. On the other hand, their rules...well, I'm just not feelin' the CSM book. I also like the idea of marine cavalry, and I have a number of Chaos Knights left over from when I thought about doing them as cheap bloodcrushers. I think I'll be using the K-sons as the Wolf Guard stand-ins, and it'd be an easy-to-ID one.

I also owe RayJ a thanks for convincing me on the tabletop that they're as solid as I'd thought. Not unbeatable by any means, but certainly contenders. That, and I dig the idea of death-seeking warriors and all things Space Wolf in general.

In Parting

I want to thank everyone for bearing with the decreased activity as of late. Some life stressors have finally died down or bowed out. I'd like a few thoughts on what everyone would generally like to see; I'll probably end up doing unit breakdowns and the occasional batrep. When I get inspired for neat conversions and such, they'll probably show up.

I'm aiming to get a couple matches in a month, as they tend to eat a Saturday morning without a hell of a lot of trouble.

*Points for you if you get the Mass Effect pun. Slaps for you if you don't.

On Space Wolves, Tyranids, a Game, and News in General

I managed to clear time for a good 2,000pt matchup with RayJ. As I am told a picture is worth a thousand words (and he brought the camera) I figured I would sum up the battle report with a picture.

My 'nid army was something like:

Tyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers

3 seperate Venomthropes

2 Tervigons with Catalyst

2x10 Devourer-gants

2 Harpies w/ TL Heavy Venom

2 Tyrannofex

RayJ's list, from memory, had something like:

Logan Grimnar

2 Rune Priests (Living Lightning each, and some other random power that had no impact)

2 Lone Wolves (Terminator Armor, Chainfist, Storm Shield. You were expecting?)

2 Wolf Guard Squads (Sarge in terminator armor with Cyclone missile launcher, powerfists?)

2 Grey Hunter Squads (double melta, and a Wolf Guard in the lead)

2 single Thunderwolf Units (Fist/Shield)

2 Long Fang Squads (3 missiles, 2 lascannons each).

The Scenario

The crater describes the end state of my army. It's been a long time since I've been tabled. We rolled up Kill Points and Table Quarters. I won the roll to go first, brain farted, and made the grave error of going second. His stuff set up with the four melee speed bumps up front, then the hunters and Wolf Guard behind, and finally the Long Fangs with a commanding view of the field.

I set up with an eye towards making sure his Thunderwolf Cav can't get a first-turn charge off. His shooting drops a Tervigon (which takes out a chunk of one of the Devourer-gant squads. Stupid 'Brood Primogenitor' rule). At that point I'm beginning to realize what my cover saves are going to look like.

So, I unload a whole lotta gunfire into his approaching stuff. I am for the t-wolves because of their speed; I probably have another turn before the Lone Wolves reach my line. I have a metric crap-ton of anti-personnel shooting.

I inflict one wound on one of the T-wolves.

Yep. Gonna be one of them games...I made a few mistakes here and there, but my utter inability to roll cover saves or inflict wounds on the other guy (I kid you not, I had a TYRANNOFEX die while sucking up an amazing total of 8-9 wounds. Inability to make both a 2+ and a 5+....).

The Lessons

Naturally, in retrospect I should've gone first. Tyranids have very little shooting that reaches out more than 24 inches, and Rupture Cannons aren't the most reliable things for killing infantry at range. (Besides, they were trying to force instant death armor saves on T-wolves, which seemed like a good idea at the time.). It's a plain nasty Space Wolf list, and while I always figured Long Fangs were nasty, I'm now very, very, very sure that I dislike them greatly. When you get down to it, most armies don't have good ways to kill infantry from over 24-36 inches (excpeting IG Russes in some cases).

On the bright side, RayJ was a fun opponent to play against (which seriously mitigated the fact that I'm still sore from what the dice did to me...) and it was nice to not play Imperial Guard. I'm not knocking IG, but when you play against it for a while, a change-up is nice.

Other Bits

On the other bright side, I found out I'm getting transferred out of the high-intensity soul-crushing office* at work in a few weeks. What does that mean for you, dear readers? (Assuming there are still some out there, I know I've not been prolific as of late).

Hopefully, it means articles more than once a month.

Anyone interested in taking a look at a gallery of 'nid pictures can find my Tyranids here. It's what I've been laboring on for the last year, though I must warn you that picture quality is not necessarily what the interweb slang would call 'uber.' I think it's more 'servicable' myself.

*Seriously am getting out of the nasty stuff, which is just in time. I seldom bring personal matters onto this blog, though work stress was starting to leech into everything else (including chronic tension headaches, which you get AWESOME meds for...) and it's a matter of either a) not having the time/urge/opportunity to blog at the same time, or b) not wanting to inflict a Grim, Dark, Bleak, Bitter-er than usual rant on the potential passer-by.

On Harpies

At last, I have finished my Harpy conversions. And, of course, I feel the need to share them and to wax poetic about the care, feeding, and employment of harpies. The first picture puts them alongside some devourer-packing Termagants for a sense of scale.

They are PRETTY. YES. THEY ARE. Side view. Coat hanger bracing FTW.

Another side view.

This is probably not what you want to see.

Construction

A cookie if you spotted the ingredients already. It's not an exhaustive list.

1) Old-school Hive Tyrant

2) Dragon Wings from WH Fantasy

3) Pair o' Venom Cannons from Warriors

4) pair o' scything talons from the trygon/mawloc kit.

The limbs were generally chosen for sake of scale. The general scale of the thing was built with transportability in mind. The wings are pinned on, as I simply could not make magnets work that well. They're secured to the base at two points; there's the coat hanger and there's an additional point on the tail, be it the base or the jutting building wreckage.

Tactics

Mobility

First off, the Harpy is fast, as it's basically monstrous jump infantry. It can get a good 12" move each turn and then fire off both of its weapon systems. However, synapse means that you will probably NOT use it to rush across the field, and frankly there's no need to close with the enemy that much. 18" is just fine for infantry-hunting, and 36" is fine for shooting at larger targets. Use the speed not to advance, but to set up shots.

Shooting

Honestly, you brought this thing because it's got guns. It starts with a twin-linked stranglethorn cannon, but I highly recommended paying 10 points to go to the twin heavy venom cannon. Why?

Simple: suppressive fire against vehicles. With twin-linked, the gun's got a base 50/50 shot of landing where you put it, just from rolling a hit with the scatter dice. More refined odds involve 2d6-3/ (size of the vehicle) and are a bit too tedious to put here. S9 has a good chance of glancing, and even with a -1 to damage from a penetrating hit it's likely to at least keep a vehicle from shooting, and will do damage 50% of the time on a good pen. Mostly, though, it's to shut those frakking tanks up for a bit. Use the mobility to line up flank shots if necessary, and you can always try to ping multi-wound T4 guys in a pinch.

In closer, you should've equipped Cluster Spines. Large blast, S5, AP-. Quantity over quality of hits, but it wounds most infantry pretty readily.

In really really close, you get the once-a-game Harpy Crap-over. You just have to move over an enemy model, and then you can barrage d3 S4 AP4 Large Blasts on top of them. Hilarity can ensue.

A word of warning: bad rolls on danger-close shots CAN hit you. As you are T5 with a 4+, it's reasonable to assume you can wounder yourself, and I kinda helped a harpy kill itself with its own large blasts.

Assault

Well, as a monstrous creature you ARE ignoring armor, and rolling 5+2d6 against vehicles. You get two base S5 hits, so pick your fights carefully: go for depleted units or go in with friends. You won't do much more than polish off a couple non-melee guys by yourself. Still, you do have Sonic Screech, which translates to assault grenades and making the enemy go at 1/2 initiative (rounded down), so if you can get buddies in there it's a good time to go to town.

Even so, I probably wouldn't try to fist-fight a dreadnought unless it's wounded or minus the Dreadnought CCW, since you'll get maybe one good penetrating hit on it in melee.

Durability

This is where some folks start quibbling about the 170pt price tag: you have four wounds at T5 with a 4+ save. At danger close, you can harm yourself with your own spore mine offal. Autocannons can ding you up, and a rail gun will break you in half.

I've got four answers for that:

1) in a pinch, hide behind another MC or grab cover if you can find it (or, say, a venomthrope).

2) ...so there's ONE ARMY that can insta-gib you at range. One. Crap happens. Are you seriously going to make your decisions based on ONE graphic mis-match? That's being a wee bit disingenuous.

3) Make sure harpies aren't the only monstrous creatures in your army, because, um, well, they won't like the attention.

4) when you get down to it, stuff like missile launchers and lascannons will wound you on a 2+ and take away your armor save ANYWAY, so how's the T5 and 4+ change that? Other than autocannons and rail guns, you're more or less identical to other MCs in terms of heavy weapons (...excepting heavy bolters, I'll grant, but they're not too common other than dakka-preds).

Overall

Harpies are mobile suppressive fire that get nastier up close. They're snipers with a point-defense system and some assault power. Use them to suppress/harass armor at range and from the flanks (since it's one of TWO guns that fire more than 24" and can harm vehicles in the 'nid book). If infantry closes, unload spore mines and cluster spines on them, and watch the wounds pile on. Take them as part of a shooty army (IE: consider Tyrannofexes, and/or hive guard/Venomthropes) to augment your long-range vehicle-harassing capabilities.

They're not all bad, but they're not auto-includes in all 'nid armies.

Tyranid MC-Heavy with Venomthropes

I apologize as it's been a while since I've posted; the Warmachine league's been in motion and I've been busy hacking away at that. Additionally, I've gotten a little 'eh' about running the same Tyranid army over and over again. I borrowed a Stelek army, the Venomthrope list in particular. It consists of:

Hive Tyrant; 2x Devourerers, Adrenal Glands, Paroxysm & Leech Essence
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
10 Termagants w/ Devourers
10 Termagants w/ Devourers
Tervigon w/ Catalyst
Tervigon w/ Catalyst
Harpy w/ Cluster Spines, TL Heavy Venom Cannon
Harpy w/ Cluster Spines, TL Heavy Venom Cannon
Tyrannofex w/ Cluster Spines, Rupture Cannon
Tyrannofex w/ Cluster Spines, Rupture Cannon
Carnifex w/ 2x TL Devourers, Adrenal Glands, Frag Spines

I admit it's got some stuff I'm not used to, like spending for Devourers on the Termagants and actually running a shooty-fex. On the other hand, I'm not used to being without Hive Guard and the Adrenal/Toxin glands on the Tervigons.

My opponent was one of my old disciples (assuming he doesn't mind me calling him that) and rolled with a good ol' Black Templar double Crusader list. It was something like:

Emperor's Chump w/ Preferred Enemy Vow
Marshal w/ hammer, shield, artificer armor
5 Terminators w/ Furious Charge (4 claws, one hammer/shield)
5 Terminators w/ Furious Charge (4 claws, one hammer/shield)
9-man Crusader Squad (Fist, Meltagun, 2x Newbs); Rhino
9-man Crusader Squad (Fist, Meltagun, 2x Newbs); Rhino
7-man Crusader Squad (Plamsa gun, lascannon)
MM/HF Speeder
MM/HF Speeder
Land Raider Crusader
Land Raider Crusader

Scenario: Annihilation
Setup: Dawn of War

Deployment

He set up the objective-camping Crusader Squad on a hill with a good, central shooting position, as he rolled to go first. I set up the Tervigons and the Hive Tyrant behind some cover. Since he's got the speed, I'm fine with going second. He's left his mechanized assets in reserve, because he might as well set up to react to my deployment, as my guys are much slower. I opt to not even try to seize the initiative.

Black Templar Turn 1

Fairly stock BT deployment: he puts the speeders as far downfield as he can, and keeps his troop transports in a central position. He decides that he'd rather put his objective-camping squad to use, and moves them up.

Tyranid Turn 1

Here's Tyranid deployment. I try to keep it central, angling a little towards one flank.

My shooting ends up exploding the speeder on the right, and I manage to shake up the speeder on the left. That's all my shooting does, but I'll take it. The Tervigons crap out a forward screen, as I think putting the Devourer-gants into that duty is a waste of some anti-infantry firepower.

Black Templar Turn 2

He boosts th speeder over to the flank, and gets the save. His objective-sitting squad hoofs it up the field, and that's about that.

Tyranid Turn 2

Of all things, the forward Termagant squad glances his speeder once, gets through the cover save, and immobilizes it. This is somewhat inconvenient for a fast skimmer that moved flat-out...it's vaguely anti-climatic as I'd positioned a fair amount of shooting to kill that thing off. My anti-vehicle shooting does crap-all past that, though my left-side squad of Devourer-gants and the Carnifex reduce the objective squad to a lascannon and plasma gun. They promptly flub their morale check, in dice luck that's going to be all too common for my opponent this time around.

Black Templar Turn 3

He moves up, popping smoke on the Rhino on my right flank. His other Rhino promptly immobilizes itself on terrain. Land Raider Crusaders disgorge their cargo and open fire, knocking some wounds off the Harpy on my right, and the Plasma gunner blows a termagant to hell.

Then, the dice make themselves known. The venomthrope dangerous terrain checks kill three terminators on their way in, then Terminators do what Termiantors do to anything they touch in close combat.

Tyranid turn three goes something like this:

Terminators on the left flank go away under a heap of devourer fire; two of them on the left flank go away. In my excitment at his ability to roll 1's repeatedly at armor saves, I forgot to take a picture. The others turn their guns on his disembarked marines, and it becomes a VERY inhospitable place as there's one plasmagunner left from one squad, and the other squad has a wounded Marshal, a meltagun, a Neophyte and a couple other space-bobs.

Black Templar Turn 4

The remaining two terminators get themselves dead because they have no Frag Grenades, and fourteen termagants are apparently angry. He puts more gunfire into my carnifex and the right-side harpy; they end up with one wound each. He's also unable to roll anything more than 1's to move his half-strength Crusader Squad; this includes the difficult terrain AND the run. Freakin' wow. He throws the other Crusader squad into my right flank and KOs the squad there. Big shock.

Tyranid Turn 4

The wounded carnifex breaks into a screaming run, finds itself a land raider, inflicts four penetrating hits on it and kills it. His commander eats two wounds and falls on a pair of 1's, and a withering barrage of devourer fire and templates kill them off.

The harpy on the right (which is conspicuously absent from this pictures) flew over that Crusader squad, took a spore mine dump on it, killed some, took a shot with cluster spines, scattered the spines onto itself, wounded itself, and killed itself. EPIC FAIL.

The Tyrannofex wanders into the survivors of that squad. It eats a couple of wounds, then steps on the Emperor's Chump repeatedly.

Final

He has a Land Raider Crusader and Rhino left at the end. This has been one of the most comprehensive crub-stomps I've seen, and honestly? It was the dice. I've never seen that many 1's that fast for armor saves so often. He played it pretty much correctly, though when you get down to it Double Land Raider Crusader + Terminators = straightforward plan. I throw up termagant screens, hope they'll hold, try to take out Termiantors before they can do too much damage.

Thoughts on the Tyranid Army

I'm beginning to see some of the logic behind this army. The Venomthropes were inordinately effective with regards to forcing dangerous terrain checks, but costing the enemy extra attacks and giving me cover saves is nice. After the game, he wondered if he would've been better off trying to potshot them with a lascannon, but I'm not too sure, since the answer is 'go to ground for the 3+' if it's not 'hide behind something scary.'

That IS a lot of monstrous creature love. The Harpies are the least durable, and their speed is more of a 'rapid response' thing than a 'look at me I'm fast!' thing. The thing is, their firepower is somewhat comparable to the Tyrannofex, but they're only useful for the suppressing aspect on vehicles. Sometimes, shutting the guns up is enough. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by the Harpies. I expect to have pictures of them up eventually, as they're now on the paint bench.

Devourer Termagants are a NASTY anti-infantry shooty force. Even at BS3, that's still 30 S4 shots. THey don't go on the front lines, but since they don't have enough AP to make it worthwhile.

I can even see the point of the Carnifex; the shooting is lovely and there's that whole S10-against-vehicles thing that's nice. That's one of the downsides of thea rmy; the Tyrannofex guns are the only real way to kill vehicles at range, but that's enough Devourerers to say 'slow down a little there,' and you can punch the crap out of them in a pinch.

Final

I'll be curious to test this army against other matchups, as I feel this would've been closer had he not rolled a crap-ton of ones. I would've had to commit monstrous creatures to close combat, and probably taken more losses. I know that's a pretty solid Black Templar build, but sometimes the dice just kill you, hard.

Tyranids: Base Size

This is a follow-up to my commentary about GW being responsive. One thing I've seen some debate on is the base size for the as-yet-unreleased sculpts for the Tyranid codex.

Tervigon, Tyrannofex, I'm looking at you, mostly. However, I can see some room for debate when it comes to the Harpy as well, and maybe even the Parasite of Mortrex.

Page 3 says that if your model comes with a plastic base, you should use that. If you're using a larger scenic base, then you should 'make sure it is ok with your opponent.' This tells us nothing about units that are without a model. I believe that putting stuff on a smaller base than intended is usually frowned upon (especially if it's a 40mm vs. 60mm deal, IE Bloodcrushers), and putting stuff on a larger-than-intended base is usually considered ok-ish if it's for modeling purposes and/or doesn't confer you a huge advantage.

The source of this post actually comes from a time when I was playing my Tyranids and someone actually walked up to me out of the blue and told me I was some win-at-all-cost cheating jerkass for putting my Tyrannofexes on a small base. His evidence was that "He had seen a rumor on a forum of a forthcoming tyrannofex kit, and it was on the new large oblong base," and that since I wasn't privy to the internet rumor (as I don't hit forums very often; staring at a screen for 8 hours a day at work doesn't make me keen to do another 3-4 hours of that at home...) I was obviously a terrible person for scratch-building a model that he did not approve of, which brings me to:

Raptor's Pro Tip On Courtesy

If you think someone is disobeying the rules, endeavor to make your point logically and point to the rules. An internet rumor is an internet rumor, no more and no less.

Back to your regularly-scheduled blogging...

His logic was that by putting the MC on a smaller base, I was actually looking for an advantage because he 'couldn't fit as much in melee with it.' Well, let's go back to the part where there's no official kit. Could GW have bothered to put out a base size indicator? Honestly, if they'd done this when they released the codex, we'd all be fine. Instead, since the new book significantly de-values the Carnifex, there are plenty of folks using Carnifex kits to construct the new MCs, and people using both of the high-end bases.

The Nuts and Bolts

What it boils down to is a contrast between the 60mm round and the big oval base (henceforth referred to as BoB for comedic and space reasons).


So, let's look at the game effect a 60mm and a BoB would have on the two new MCs most likely to come on the BoB.

1) Tervigon
Frankly, I think the BoB favors the Tervigon. You want your Termagants within 6" to benefit from the glands and Counterattack the critter-spitter came with. You want other stuff within 12" or so to benefit from your psychic powers.

Honestly, I think if I've got a choice between base size, the BoB is a clear winner for the Tervigon, simply because it offers a great increase in ability coverage. Take two of those, put them long-ways-forward, and see how much of your front you cover. The flip side is that you'd have to work your assault screens a little more diligently, but you'd be much more likely to get the benefit as well. You'd also have a much greater area to place your newly-spawned termagants, but the death throes from it would reach further.

If I had to eyeball it and guess, I'd say it maybe doubles the coverage?

2) Tyrannofex
I don't think this one wins so much from the larger base. You have a 48" gun (...unless, for some reason, you decided to take the Assault 20, S4 gun on a BS3 platform or the short-ranged flamer), so technically you get even more coverage. The shorter-ranged weapons DO gain some range off it, and your flamer gets placement options (so you can do things like poke an edge out and kick off a shot between your troops, but that's something you could probably finagle anyway...).

I think it's so-so at best for benefits. You do get more coverage out of your guns, since it measures from the base edge at the model's eye. It's probably not the same kind of benefit as the Tervigon, because honestly, what's another inch or two for the gun in a couple directions?

The Others
Should the Harpy get a 60mm or a BoB? Good question. Given the range of its gun, it's not such a huge deal. The question the Harpy has to answer is how the base size interacts with the spore-mine-on-black-car ability: you want to fly over the enemy to hit him with the mines. A larger base allows you more freedom to just 'graze' a unit, but also makes landing placement more difficult. I'm not sure if it's a benefit or not.

The Parasite of Mortrex? I'd wager most folks are modeling this one up like an upgraded Shrike or Alpha. I am ASSUMING the Alpha goes on a 40mm since it's an upgunned warrior, and by that logic I'd say the Parasite went onto a 40mm as well. I suppose a larger base increases the are of effect for its Synapse and 'don't die, little Rippers' special rule, but I don't see that as being a huge advantage.

Bottom Line
I wish GW had simply released some guidance as to base size. Frankly, since you're releasing the codex and some sweet units that have no models, you've got to expect people will kit-bash them. Is it really that hard to put a little blurb in there about base size?

Then again, I've also seen the 'joy' that comes from having stuff with an ambiguous footprint; there's no hard-and-fast guidance for how much space a Defiler/Soul Grinder should take up. Are they sweet models? Yeah. Can they have as big or small or irregular a footprint as you like? Yeah. I've seen some folks answer this by putting them on a base, though it's best if that base is detachable so that it can move through terrain.

On the BoB in general
This one gets more into the op-ed mode, but does anyone else have lukewarm feelings on this thing for foot units? I mean, I can understand it on Flyers; you want the size and shape for stability, and you're measuring to the Hull for shooting purposes anyway. It all works out.

My issues with it are the potential difficulties involved in basic movement. On a round base, your facing is irrelevant as you will always take up the same amount of space. Vehicles care about facing because it determines the armor, and on vehicles with potentially confusing facings they often have identical armor values (...not sure where you'd draw the 'x' to divide up a Wave Serpent, but at least the front and sides have the same AV, and frankly it deserves to die if you let someone get a rear arc shot on it...). Honestly, I don't think it's THAT big a deal, but it is a bit annoying.

So, spinning in place, yes/no? It DOES change how close you are to the enemy; is that movement? Honestly, I'd rule it as yes, and just try to be careful when I rotate the base as I move. No one's given me any trouble for how I've moved it, but I've also only run Trygons a few times (...then the Reserves Nerf Bat hit, and I was a sad panda).

Conclusion
I wish GW would put out some conclusive guidance on base size. It wouldn't be that difficult for GW to do; it honestly wouldn't. I have a hunch, though, that the first we'll know about an 'official' base size is when GW finally produces a kit. Given that it's taken them a long time to release the Manticore/Deathstrike kit and the Space Wolves are STILL waiting on a Thunderwolf other than the hero (AND it's metal, and thus a pain to mod...) I'm not expecting anything 'til mid-2011 at best.

Look, I can appreciate that it DOES take time to craft and then produce a new sculpt. In an ideal world, I'd try to make sure that the big-ticket items (IE: Thunderwolf Cav) are ready to go with the codex release. In lieu of that, though, I'd like clarification on stuff as closely related to gameplay as base size.

Right now, my Tyrannofexes and Tervigons are on 60mm bases, and if/when I get guidance that they should be on the BoB, I'll put 'em on it.

More Thoughts on Tyrands, Post-FAQ, and Other News

I'll start with the 'Other News.' Posts have slowed down to an extent, and there are two reasons for that:

1) Work was consuming my soul gradually

2) I started playing Warmachine/Hordes

That being said (and despite some bottled-up annoyances/disillusionment with GW) I don't intend to out-and-out quit 40k. I mean, I own Eldar, Tyranid, Tau, and Black Templar armies and the nucleous of a basic loyalist space marine army. That's a hell of a lot of money to just walk away from, and I'm not too into selling it off when I'm just drawing down the game a bit.

That being said, since this blog gets a lot of 40k traffic and I tend to blog based on my experiences (Hey, writing it down is educational for me AND sometimes helpful to the community) I'm likely to start up a Warmachine-based Spite Blog. (Shameless Plug: Check out Spite for the Unblighted. )

I still intend to post 2-4 reasonably in-depth articles for Warhammer 40k a month, but I'd like to chronicle my experiences with Warmachine/Hordes as well.

Ok, we've got the 'other' part out of the way.

Down to the Bugs

So, what's changed for what I'll take in an army with Tyranids? Annoyed though I am, here's the list of stuff that I'm less likely to take because it's a pain in the tail to get +2 to reserves rolls:

1) Drop Pod Zoanthropes

These guys got kicked in the balls by the ruling. Look, when you've got an 18" gun of DEATH for vehicles, well, you might be a target priority. Just saying. And you're the main way this army stops Land Raiders? Ouch.

Not to get ranty, but either you hope the other guy lets you shoot his Land Raiders/expensive tanks with your Zoanthropes, or you um, y'know, get hosed/hope your MCs can assault them.

2) Anything Else in a Drop Pod

Ok, honestly, what makes me nervous about facing Drop Pod marines/outflanking IG skimmers and the like is the part where it craps out template and/or melta weapons in their preferred range. We can crap out Warriors or a heap of Hormagaunts, which are considerably less scary. The stuff with guns gets to shoot them when they arrive. Our guys have to wait a turn to move into position, and if Synapse isn't close, you have to hope you make that Instinctive Behavior check. If you're not in cover, then, well, ouch. So long. Nice knowing you, little guys.

3) Trygons

Ok, sure, technically you can keep them in on the table, but if you want to get to the enemy (Hey, T6, 6 wounds and a 3+ with a model THAT freakin' tall, you aren't getting cover at all, ever. Sorry. Wait, are there MISSILE LAUNCHERS on the other side of the table? Oh, s- BOOM!).

Best-case scenario: arrive turn two, weather a turn of gunfire. Turn three, assault something. Hope to stay in assault. (It worked once: hit a big squad of IG, and his COMMISSAR decided to be an epic hero and held in assault against 5 genestealers and a Trygon during my assault phase. Then he died so very, very horribly in his...). Turn four, repeat.

Downside? You don't start being that productive until the turn after you arrive. 6-12 shots off your personal static electricty at a mighty BS3 do NOT actually make you that scary in shooting; it's like giving a helicopter pilot a sidearm: it gives them something productive to do when they're shot down and waiting to get killed off for raining hellfire missiles on folks.

4) Mawlocs

Best-case scenario? Arrive turn two, deep-strike onto something. Hilarity ensues. Turn three, thank the enemy for NOT killing it, fall back into reserves. Turn four, emerge again for more hilarity. If you still exist in turn five, think long and hard about going back underground or staying topside, since you give away your points if you're in reserves on turn five and turn six doesn't roll around.

Outside of popping up and screwing up stuff, you have a mighty WS3 and three base S6 monstrous creature attacks. Hope no one wants to assault you, and if no one does, consider assaulting them.

5) Any of Your Other Elites

Seriously, unless it's a Venomthrope, has anyone else even taken other Elites choices? I mean, a walking flamethrower is cool and all, and so are Ymgarl stealers (at least in theoryhammer) but that means giving away all your shooting, which just doesn't do much. (Except for my last game against 'nids as Tau; watching the other guy seize the initiative and his one Tyrannofex popping your Hammerheads on turns one and two while they kill a mighty total of FOUR hormagaunts is, um...I needed some Jack straight; not Gentleman Jack because I was just going to THROW IT DOWN THE HATCH and that'd be rude to the good stuff...)

So, What Now?

Well, frankly, most of the time a solid core for a list for me starts with 20 Termagants, 2 Tervigons, and 6 Hive Guard. This is still 490 points of troops and another 300 points and 2-3 of your Elites choices.

As it stands, then, there are a couple of lists I'm down to considering.

1) Shooty Bugs

Take 3 Tyrannofexes and a Prime. You're at 1680. At this point I consider either more shooting (you might be able to fit in a couple of Harpies with Heavy Venom Cannons) or some mid-range shooty/assault support in the form of a warrior squad, or even filling out my Fast Attack with Spore Mines for the laughs.

2) Horde Bugs

Take a couple of Primes as HQs, take six Hive Guard, three Venomthropes and three Tyrannofexes. This costs you a minimum of 1420 (ok, maybe drop a tyrannofex) and then fill the rest of that with things that scuttle and bite.

Hope you don't meet Land Raiders or mech spam.

3) Try Reserves Anyway

Now, thing is, there's STILL a way to get +2 to reserves off the bat; you take the Swarmlord AND a Hive Tyrant, because Alien Cunning and Hive Commander still stack. Here's what I can think of as a prototype for that list:

Still Looking For That +2 Reserves, Thank You Very Much...

Swarmlord [280]

-3 Tyrant Guard w/ Lash Whips [195]

Hive Tyrant [220]

-Heavy Venom Cannon

-Lash Whip/Bone Sword

-Hive Commander

-Leech Essence, Paroxysm

Tyrant Guard w/ Lash Whip [65]

2 Hive Guard [100]

2 Hive Guard [100]

2 Hive Guard [100]

11 Termagants [55]

11 Termagants [55]

Tervigon [195]

-Catalyst

-Adrenal Glands

-Toxin Sacks

Tervigon [195]
-Catalyst
-Adrenal Glands
-Toxin Sacks

7 Genestealers w/ Toxin Sacks [119]

Mawloc [160]

Mawloc [160]

Total: 1999/2000

Thoughts

I feel light on shooting, but that's because I don't have Tyrannofexes. On the flip side, I can ram the Swarmlord down someone's throat with Feel No Pain, and potentially threaten them with the other Hive Tyrant.

The Mawlocs and Genestealers are supposed to make folks worry; with the Swarmlord I can reliably place them on the side I want, and then the Mawlocs SHOULD be there on turn two. Hopefully I've put the enemy into disarray, and then the brick of tyranids starts advancing.

Cons? My significant shooting doesn't reach past 24", as the Heavy Venom Cannon will at best annoy the other guy by making his heavy armor not shoot for a turn, or if I'm lucky take a gun off. (which is cool against people with just one main gun, mind you...).

What would I change? I'd frankly LOVE to get another big critter in there. As it is, I could maybe drop a Hive Guard off the Swarmlord and lose the Genestealers, then go up to a third Mawloc and find a place to put that other ~25 points.

Anyway, thoughts/curses/well-wishes/rotten produce? I'm looking at you, TKE.

Swarmlord & Friends: Abbreviated After Action

I apologize, as there would've been pictures had I had any brainpower left after dealing with a day of epic-level stupidity at work. I just have no words to describe it adequately; someone talking about training suggested a mentorship for letting the new guys learn 'the why behind the what.' I have to say that knowing the 'why' is kind of like being the protagonist in one of Lovecraft's shorts: the knowledge brings only pain and insanity.

So. That aside, here was the situation:

'Nids
Swarmlord + 3 Whip-packing Guard
3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
Deathleaper
10 Termagants
11 Termagants
Tervigon w/ Onslaught, Catalyst
Tervigon w/ Onslaught, Catalyst
8 Genestealers w/ Poison
Trygon w/ Furious Charge
Trygon w/ Furious Charge

Vs

Imperial Guard
Co. Command w/ Meltas, Vox, Chimera (laser/flamer)
Co. Command w/ Vox
Chimera Melta Vets
Infantry Platoon
'toon command, vox
20 guys w/ 2 Lascannons, Commissar, couple power weapons, vox
30 guys w/ commissar, 3 autocannons, some power weapons, vox
Special Weapons Squad w/ flamers
Heavy Weapons Team w/ missile launchers
Hellhound w/ hull MM
Hellhound w/ hull MM
Leman Russ w/ Sponson bolters, pintle stubber, lascannon
Leman Russ w/ Sponson bolters, pintle stubber, lascannon
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ hull flamer

Scenario
Capture and Control, Pitched Battle Deployment

The Battle in Brief
IG won the first go. He deployed an objective in a corner, screened by his footbound infantry. Russes in central deployment, with melta-vets and a hellhound on either flank. I put my objective across from his, and hung on the side across from him. Hive Guard on one side and in the middle; and a fairly even split of assets past that. I failed to seize.

Turns 1 and 2
I have to admit that off the bat, he had some awesome shooting and I couldn't roll a save worth a crap. I lost two hive guard, a couple wounds off the Swarmlord, and took some damage here and there. Notably, the Hive Guard had to Onslaught into position in the middle, flub their shooting horribly, and lose two of them to counter-fire from a hellhound, the demolisher, and melta. I only really suppress ONE of the bloody hellhounds...ouch.

But, come my turn two, Swarmlord's still around...and I get everything. The Genestealers appear on the correct flank (the one with assault targets as opposed to the flank waaaay out there with nothing to hit) and promptly grab themselves a 20-man + commissar squad (Deathleaper had penalized the Commissar's leadership and at least tried to work that angle...). Punchline: due to a Trygon scattering to an inch of that squad, he couldn't pile in for crap. Ouch.

Insult to injury: he gets a hellhound and a chimera hull flamer into termagants; kills a whopping 4 out of 10, between rolling a heap of 1's with the hellhound and the other squad makes some awesome feel no pain rolls.

Turns 3 and 4
Sadly, he'd committed his melta assets too early to harming the Swarmlord and one flank's hive guard. I managed to take those out in the previous turns, so he had about a turn before the Trygons went to town on me. He managed to shoot the crap out of them, but kill neither. His commissar takes out another genestealer, and they hold on turn 3. Punchline: he holds out as the last man on HIS turn, staring at four genestealers (...yes, he killed the other four in the squad) and a Trygon that are Not Amused.

The other Trygon ate itself a russ, and grabbed a position for the assault on his objective.

My turn 3 gets gruesome; his stuff starts dying. Deathleaper popped out behind the Vendetta, hit a shot, and wrecked it. Thank you, flesh hooks. The special weapons team managed to flub their morale check, and my original 11 termagants had more or less made it across the field.

By his turn four, he's got a stunned hellhound looking at a hungry Tervigon, a pinned squad of flamers looking at an advancing group of Termagants, a lone missile launcher looking at 8 angry termagants, my objective firmly in hand, and the four genestealers, two tervigons, and Swarmlord looking at his objective hungrily. I have two hive guard left; one of them survived a heap of shots only to go down to an exploding hellhound.

As the store was planning to close, we called it at the end of my turn four. I had two Trygons into a 30-man squad suffering from Paroxysm, and four genestealers had cleaned his other command squad off his objective and were contesting it (might have had it after pile-in moves). Deathleaper had pegged his other Russ and tear off the cannon.

Thoughts on the New (to me) Units
Swarmlord and Buddies
Frankly, 3 tyrant guard are pretty much essential; against gun-heavy lists if they want him dead, you'll need all the protection you can get (and Catalyst). He made it to turn two by the skin of his teeth, and then they had more immediate threats. My opponent DID target him explicitly to try to screw up my reserves plan.

Against Guard, honestly, a bunch of S6 preferred-enemy insta-gib attacks that force re-rolls on invulnerable saves is just a little bit of overkill in assault.

Deathleaper
This is the first time I've fielded him, and I can see the merit. Admittedly, all he really did was make one guard squad Ld8 stubborn instead of Ld9. I think I might have played him conservatively, but the thing is that assaulting the 20-30 man squads is not gonna work, and the missile team can insta-gib him. Threatening rear shots on vehicles is reasonably nasty, but I think it's just a matter of target selection this time around.

Onslaught on Tervigons
Catalyst will still be my go-to power. I went with catalyst for two reasons:
1) get Swarmlord into position while still being able to use his powers
2) extra range on Hive Guard

I feel justified on number two as I've got all of two shooty units, and I need to get as much use as possible out of them. If I can get another turn of shooting out of them because of extra movement (or making up for a craptastic Difficult Terrain roll) then it's worth it. In this army, the Swarmlord is probably gonna get Catalyst, so that leaves an Onslaught to hand out.

Trygons
Getting them in early helps, and getting them in with as many threats as possible helps. Coming in on a 3+ helps, and the genestealers are also a credible threat, especially if the enemy's close to the flanks. Still, if I get them in early, they'll do damage. The enemy gets...one turn...to drop them.

Genestealers
Frankly, the Swarmlord makes them work a little better. I get the reserves bonus (well, it's mandatory under Alien Cunning) but I also get a re-roll on the side they arrive. Since there's normally a 66% chance of making it in on the desired side, Swarmlord bumps that up to 88%.

Poison is useful for boosting lethality, pure and simple. 'Stealers have S4 and I6; S4 is really the place to be for poison outside of S6 (as S4 + poison on 4+ translates to 75% chance to wound per hit against most infantry) and you don't really NEED I7. You do get a slight perk as it gives you another chance to see a rend on toughness-based targets. It translates to about a 25% chance to score a rend per hit if you get the re-roll.

Bottom line, though, with the Swarmlord the outflank becomes a serious consideration, because your enemy has to assume that you WILL get them on the correct side more often than not. The 'stealers force your enemy to avoid keeping stationary vehicles close to the edge (...not necessarily an issue unless it's a gun platform) and make sure everyone's got terrain in the way. It doesn't make them an auto-include in the army, but I think a unit CAN be a performer.

Overall
Honestly, both me and my opponent were a little out of practice, so there's that to factor in. The play was not top form, and the dice were a bit wonky (average on the long run, but some wild swings on the individual rolls, like my early 3+ save fails and inability to fail later on).

I think the Swarmlord works okish with this setup. I do miss having three groups of hive guard for the ability to split fire (both incoming and outgoing). I think Deathleaper is much nastier when I'm screwing over psykers. I think the Swarmlord IS a bit hit-or-miss, as sometimes that kind of melee killing power is overkill.

Certainly, Trygons + Genestealers can throw someone on the back foot, and if the enemy commits assets too early, well, they get hurt.

Other experiences with the Swarmlord?

Special thanks to Chumbalaya for recommending genestealers on that count...

Tervigon Conversion Pictures

I'm going to let the tactial deep-thinking go by the wayside for a little bit since I finally got off my tail and got access to a camera. Here come the tervigons! They're a carnifex kit with warrior scything talons (...I don't see much point in melee upgrades past the double-glands for these guys, but I suppose I could justify Scything Talons) and a foam ball to bulk up the back. Like the Tyrannofexes, I'm going for simple but effective. One of them's even taking a termagant-dump.
Front and back. Mmm, green stuff and foam for the bulking out.

I figure the big tongue works as a toxin-type upgrade. If you look closely at the ribs on the bottom, there's the adrenal gland. With all the other gooey bits up top, I just couldn't find a good spot to slap the gland. The pointy carapace bit servs me again as cluster spines, though I suppose it could also do the Stinger Salvo in a pinch.

Side view; one of them has the talon atached to a chunk of the base and the other's doing just fine.

And finally, a bit of a top view. If I shot directly from the top, well, there'd be the shadow from my hand and all.

I know there's no way they'd actually fit the 20 bajillion termagants in there, and the max production they could make out over the course of a game is 15 per turn (that's a 4, 5, and 6, so no doubles) for seven turns, or 105 termagants. There's no way you're fitting that much space into anything you really want to field and justifying it being able to move under its own power.

I figure that the tervigons carry a crap-ton of embryos, and then use some kind of internal fuel source to rapidly hatch them and grow them and fire them out. Thus, when you see doubles, it's the fuel source burning down, or some other internal ammo-depleted type of deal.

Tyranids in Drop Pods: More Thinking Involved

I blame this in part on Chumbalaya for making me think more, and blame work for not getting to it sooner.

In part, I'd like to get out of my comfort zone; I usually play with som hive guard, tervigons, and usually tyrannofexes past that. Is it solid? Reasonably so. However, it IS potentially a rut, and I don't think I'm using all the 'nid codex can give me, and frankly, I picked it up over Tau and Eldar because I wanted variety in my builds.

With that in mind, I'm going to run down stuff I think might or might not fit into a 'nid drop-pod/reserves list.

A Crucial Difference

Now, the other well-known arrives-in-pods lists is, of course, the Space Marines. One of the things that Marines can do that I like is bring units suited for engaging multiple targets, AND make sure they get what they want when they want it (well, other than the BT codex; the others get Drop Pod Assault) and can usually bring units capable of engaging a variety of targets (IE: MM/HF dreads, MM/flamer tac squads, combi-toting Sternguard, etc.).

Tyranids? We tend not to have as much duality, so I've got to get away from my preconceptions of what a drop-pod list 'can' do, and think about a Mycetic Spore list.

So, on to the choices, run down by Force Org slots.

HQs

Tyrants

Hive Tyrants get Hive Commander, our reserves manipulation. You get two things for the 25 points: first, +1 to reserves (optional unless it's the Swarmlord) and you get to designate one unit to outflank.

Tyrants can take wings for speed/mobility, or take a couple guard for durability and give you a 'starts on table' core. I'd think about either whip/sword + heavy venom, or look into devourerers. The Guard can probably run naked.

Tyranid Primes

Primes really only give you two things in a spore list: more points to play with, and the ability to slap synapse into any unit. The former means you're not getting the Hive Commander perk, and the latter gives you the ability to slap it in with 19 hormagaunts for comedic value.

HQs Overall

I have to lean towards Tyrants here. I think you need to try Spores at a larger points level to get enough, and because you want a Tyrant or two to make sure you can get them there.

Elites

Again, this is where we're getting the guns. For that reason, I'm not gonna touch the other reserves.

Zoanthropes vs Hive Guard

This is your big question, honestly. I think if you're gonna focus on pods, you should give serious thought to Zoanthropes. Zoeys are your 'kills the tank' option. If you're reserving Hive Guard, there's the issue of getting them into range, or starting with enough on the table to mak sure they don't get splattered on turn one.

Deathleaper?

Ok, you're taking Deathleaper for one reason: you want your Zoanthropes to get Warp Lance off. That's why you brought them. Deathleaper can give you better odds; even a Ld9 hood is a decent step up in chances to win the dice-off. If you manage an average d6 roll and knock them to Ld8 for the hood, then so much the better: it's pretty much sunk.

That aside, Deathleaper is ALSO just plain fun to field. You're NOT bringing him for the whole +1 to reserves, since he has to be on the field to use it.

Troops

Well, we need 'em. I think you can get serious mileage out of Tervigons/Termagants, though Warriors are also a nasty thing to put in a pod.

Tervigon/Termagant

But a Tervigon doesn't fit in a pod! Ok, wait. Go read Hive Commander. I'm not always a fan of outflanking, but a Tervigon has the potential to open up a whole new front in a fight when they walk on. First there's one, then there's 10 termagants, then 20...and you suddenly have to worry about that.

Termagants, well, you can slap them in pods, or just run them normally. You can at least buy pods for them and have the option, and I might think (I'm not sure how long) about throwing Devourers onto them for range, and for the ability to lay down a reasonably withering torrent of fire should I decide to land them and shoot things. I mean, a minimal 10-man squad IS throwing out 30 dice.

Warriors

Frankly, you're running these as a Deathstar distraction. 5-6 of them, whips/swords, devourers and a venom cannon. Ok shooting, but NO ONE wants that hitting the lines next turn. No one. You're looking at close to 300 points for that assembly, but it DOES have to be taken seriously. However, IG with russes might just LOL at this and feed it pie, but that's part of the game. Then you can cry a little.

Hormagaunts

Now, you CAN slap 20 of these in a pod, or 19 plus Prime. Frankly, I think this falls under a similar use as Warriors, though cheaper. Do worry about flamers, but on the other hand, Hormies CAN pretty much auto-pilot. The downside? If you're outside of synapse, they might just throw a tank at the hormies and laugh; if they move it well enough it might take a couple of glances but they can buy time.

Fast Attack

Frankly, there are two choices here for deep-striking: Raveners and Shrikes. I don't think Harpies have a place in a deep-striking list; while they can, you want them on the field shooting, and they benefit from having other targets to draw fire. I mean, they ARE only T5 with 4 wounds and a 4+ save. Target saturation is a survival mechanism for them.

Raveners

These are your cheap deep-strikers. 35 points a head for beasts with rending claws and speed 'On you next turn!' I like them because with rending claws and a solid volume of attacks, they're a legitimate threat to vehicles AND troops (...though should probably avoid Dreadnoughts, especially AV13 front-armor ones...)

The only downside is that compared to the rest of your army, they're less adept at deep-striking since they have no defense against a mishap.

Shrikes

Go read the warrior entry; remove the pod, add wings and reduce save to a 5+. Take the speed of 'on you next turn.' If you thought Warriors would draw fire, these things will SERIOUSLY do it. However, they're also 50 points a head for whip/sword + scything talons, and they do give up their ability to shoot in order to beomce adept at melee. Limits them somewhat, but seriously, they're gonna be assaulting something and praying they don't hit a dreadnought.

Given the cost, though, I'd almost lean towards regular warriors because I can put them in a drop pod and make SURE they land alive, instead of scattering a 250+ point unit off the table. Whoops.

Heavy Support

I'm inclined to look at three choices for heavy support in context of a drop pod list: Tyrannofexes, Carnifexes, and Trygons.

Tyrannofex?

Ok, it doesn't fly/fall with style. Why is it in here? Simple. It has the range to come on from reserves and contribute from the get-go. It's tough enough to survive all but the heaviest of firepower (or at least the highest of AP...) for a few turns. And, as long as you have the enemy on the back foot, they probably won't tie it up in melee. Failing that, it still has nasty close-in firepower with the flamer and cluster spines, and the durability to deal with melee for a turn or two unless they brought a heap of poison boneswords or powerfists.

...Carnifexes?!

Blame it on Chumbalaya, but I think he's got a point here. Twin-linked devouerers won't KILL vehicles, but it WILL allow a Carnifex to throw out some suppressing fire. I admit I haven't tested this theory out, but I can see some potential.

You're taking the Carnie for suppressive fire. A dozen S6 shots at BS3 twin-linked should quite down/stop most lighter vehicles, and if you can nail it with S9+2d6 melee attacks after that, you've probably solved a tank problem.

You ARE losing your re-rolls in melee and paying 190 points + pod for the thing, but it's one of the few versatile(ish) choices we can drop in. In a pinch, it's got a reasonable(ish) chance at passing Instinctive Behavior, and the enemy is pretty much sacrificing anything used as bait against it, or they're killing it.

Trygons

Pretty simple: survive a first turn of fire, then assault things with a heap of S6 MC attacks with re-rolls to hit. I'd think about finding points for Adrenal Glands, if only because S6+2d6 has given me issues against heavier armor often enough. It's also an edge if you attack other monstrous creatures (wounding on 3+ against T6? Yes please?).

Loading Out the Spores

Base 40 points, and you get some S6 attacks out to six inches. It'll do something if you actually land close enough to hit the enemy, but that's cutting it close. You have two real weapon options, the way I see it: Cluster Spines give you a large blast for your crap BS, and a Heavy Venom Cannon can potentially suppress vehicles. However, the guns ARE an investment in points, and I'd probably look to those last.

Overall

I've got whiskey and Mass Effect calling my name now (and some frustration because Blogger decided to try to EAT the post...). I am curious to hear from others who've tried reserves-heavy 'nid lists, and faced them. I think it can work, I think the tools are there, I just think it's gonna have to run it differently than other ones.

Thoughts, feedback, and insults are welcome.

Tyranid Brainstorm: Air Mail or Ground? BOTH!

I apologize for slow responses on the previous thread, though I'd had some ideas percolating. Here's a thought for some aggressive buggy goodnes that's a departure from my usual sit 'n' shoot list. I mean, I haven't played Tau in months but I'm playing my bugs a lot LIKE the Tau, and that kinda defeats the purpose...

So, here we go:

HQ
Hive Tyrant [255]
Wings, Hive Commander, 2x Scything Talons
Paroxysm, Leech Essence

Hive Tyrant [255]
Wings, Hive Commander, 2x Scything Talons
Paroxysm, Leech Essence

Elites
2 Hive Guard [100]

2 Hive Guard [100]

2 Hive Guard [100]

Troops
11 Termagants [55]

10 Termagants [50]

5 Warriors [265]
Whips/Swords, Toxin Sacks, 4x Devourers, Venom Cannon

Fast Attack
5 Shrikes [290]
Whips/Swords, Toxin Sacks, 4x Devourers, Venom Cannon

16 Gargoyles [18]
Toxin Sacks, Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support
Trygon [200]

Trygon [200]

Total: 1998/2000

Thoughts Behind the List
This originally started out as a Flying Circus of Insanity, and in lieu of Trygons I'd fielded another brood of Shrikes, and taken Old Adversary on the Tyrants instead.

The idea is that gargs screen shrikes screen tyrants, and then a trygon or two pops up on turn 2. Backfield synapse comes from the Warriors (who are still capable of taking out anything short of a Dreadnought or heaps of S8+ abuse), while Termagants provide objective support and the hive guard, well, do what hive guard do: feed things S8 shots and don't care about cover.

Thoughts? Am I better off going with double shrikes instead? Double shrikes feels more focused, and there IS the issue of keeping all that stuff alive against a shooty army. I do worry that I might be diluting my theme a little.

Feedback/thoughts are, as ever, welcome and appreciated.

Reader's Choice/Requests on Tyranids

It's been almost two weeks since my last post. In part, I've not really managed to get a game in; last weekend things went nuts and poor communication this time around meant I lurked in a gaming store for a bit, then bought some foam for my Warmachine project.

Lately, I've been delving into the 'nids. I think I'm getting comfortable with some of the ways they play, but admittedly, I've not yet tried everything with them.

Stuff I have Used
Primes
Footslogging Melee Warriors
Tervigon/Termagant Core
Hive Guard
Tyrannofexes

These, I'm pretty comfortable with.

Stuff I have NOT used so much
Trygons
Hive Tyrants
Zoanthropes
Hormagaunts
Mycetic Spores
Biovores
Harpies
Lictors
Raveners

I'm curious to hear what readers have thought of these. Please, share experiences both in fielding them (bonus points if you provide context of lists/scenario...) and in fighting against them.

I admit I'd like to try Hormies and Raveners, and I'll EVENTUALLY get those bloody harpies converted...

Stuff I Don't Use Much, But Have A Pretty Firm Opinion ON
Spore Mines
-90pt filler/diversion, or look elsewhere

Carnifexes
-I'd not take more than a couple of 2x scything talon in a brood, if that.
-No, frag spines are NOT really worth it. The only time you really care about them is charging heaps of powerfists in cover, and powerfists will generally kill you.

Venomthropes
-Solid support, BUT only in certain builds.

Pyrovores
-....why? Competes with your honest-to-god shooty units and kills infantry. What do we have that CAN'T carve up infantry in other slots

THere are probably others.

At any rate, I'm looking to viewers/readers for inspiration here. Work's been more insane than usual, so I've got less brainpower to go around.

Carnifex Support v BT Land Raiders

Alright, I've had this batrep sitting for a bit, but it's been a busy week. Also, the game's a bit hazy-ish since I saw Iron Man 2 at 11:45 the night before, so yeah. At any rate, I'd intended to test Carnifexes out as a support element.

Tyranids
Prime w/ Whip, Sword
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
Tervigon w/ Catalyst, toxin/adrenal
Tervigon w/ Catalyst, toxin/adrenal
5 Warriors; whips/swords, 4 Devourers, Venom Cannon
2 Carnifexes
Tyrannofex w/ Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines
Tyrannofex w/ Rupture Cannon, cluster spines

As you can see, it's a reasonably basic shooty setup. Warriors and two carnifexes provide assault power, tervigons and termagants provide board control. I've got plenty of synapse, and against tougher melee adversaries I can chuck the Prime in with the Warriors to give them WS6 and BS4. I opted for guns on the warriors so if I can't assault, I still have SOME damage output, and losing the scything talons (when it's just one pair) isn't necessarily that harmful.

VERSUS Black Templar
Emperor's Chump, Preferred Enemy Vow
5 Terminators [4 Claws, 1 Hammer, Furious Charge]
5 Terminators [4 Claws, 1 hammer, furious charge]
7-man squad w/ las, plas
7-man squad w/ las, plas
Crusader Squad w/ Fist, Meltagun in Rhino w/ EA, Smoke
Crusader Squad w/ Fist, Meltagun in Rhino w/ EA, Smoke
MM/HF Speeder
MM/HF Speeder
Land Raider Crusader w/ EA, smoke
Land Raider Crusader w/ EA, smoke

This differs from his previous version in that he dropped the 81pt Grey Knight Brother-Captain, and added more troops to his various squads. Still, it's a nasty Big Freaking Rock army. Double raiders mean you CAN get at least one squad there, and with re-rolls and furious charge lightning claws, well, most stuff with a toughness value goes away.

Scenario
Deployment: Dawn of War
Objectives: 5 objective markers
BT wins first-turn roll-off; tyranids seize the initative.

Tyranid Turn 1

I start with my Tervigons on the table; they crap out a front line and everyone else runs on. He starts with the camping las/plas squads; I've highlighted them in a red box and put the objectives in the red circles. Given the deployment sides, I've got to press forward and grab objectives; he needs to hold his line and secure one of those across the table from him.

My Tervigon on the right promptly runs dry.

Templar Turn 1

Lots of stuff drives on. His las/plas squads opt to get into a better shooting position, in lieu of chancing night-fight rolls. His speeders scream across the table, threatening to play with fire. And my troops.

Tyranid Turn 2

I advance. Chances are, I didn't do it enough, but we won't know that for a few turn, will we? I make sure his speeders go away; it helps that he can't make a 4+ save. The one on the left gets immobilized moving flat out, and the one on the right explodes. I can't do more than shake/stun his Rhinos; I engage them because I might actually STOP them as opposed to chance damaging the raiders, and then have everything arrive intact.

Turn out I'm taking a leak into the wind, other than killing the speeders.

Templar Turn 2

Big surprise: he drives forward, pops smoke. He fans out to get troops near objectives, and the Raiders position for launching fighters. I think of Land Raider Crusaders as short-ranged carriers with a nasty fighter screen; right now they're getting into range. His lascannons busy themselves with rolling 1's and 2's as often as possible.

Tyranid Turn 3

I somehow immobilize both Rhinos even through smoke. That's really it, other then the fact I can't make psychic rolls (and actually drop a wound off one of my Tervigons because of box cars). The tervigon on the right manages to crap out an amazing FIVE Termagants; I give in to a wild hare and throw them across the field to shoot and assault one of his scoring squads. As expected, I kill a few, but the Termagants fail morale and actually get away. It provides a moment of comedy, and it's about all I can think of doing with a whopping 4-5 in one brood.

Black Templar, Turn 3

His Crusader squads pop out of their beat-up Rhinos, and move towards objectives. Land Raiders advance and disgorge cutty death.

One crusader squad can't make terrain rolls worth a crap to get into warriors. Termagants go down in flames. Or, up in giblets (but no gravy). Big surprise; twenty WS4, S5 attack that re-roll hits and wounds kill 10 termagants really hard...

Tyranid Turn 4

Hello, back foot. Time to repulse that assault. Warriors and other fire converges to waste four terminators on my right flank, and the TH/SS terminator responds by...running away. The other squad holds fast, and I throw my carnifexes into it. Gotta sort those before they sort my army.

My opponent can't make 4+ cover saves, but CAN make 5+ invulnerable saves. One carnifex was softened up prior to getting into assault, and gets lightning-clawed down. Sad, isn't it? I don't get to deploy my Warriors (more importantly, I don't get to MOVE them) to finish off the TH/SS termie, but he is within six inches still.

Black Templar Turn 4

My opponent plays a sound game; he moves to lock down two forward objectives and put a Land Raider on the last one. Operational land raiders make me sad, but I at least have a Carnifex I can put into that one. Right? And I've got Tyrannofexe in position to shoot and assault them.

Tyranid Turn 5

Funny story: warrior squad versus Crusaders doesn't work out for the Crusaders. I beat up the Land Raiders, but don't kill them. Being turn five, I try to harm the squad on the right as well; this turns out predictably poor. Still, you can't always rely on getting turn six...

Black Templar Turn 5 (FINAL)

...because you won't always get one. He's got Land raiders contesting two objectives, and troops on the others. Game to Black Templar.

Thoughts

Overall, I probabably could have stood to move my guys up a bit more. I sometimes have issues with aggression (or lack thereof) and I think it showed here. Also, don't play games on six hours of sleep; it probably doesn't help.

Past that, twin land raiders is just a nasty build; I'm not 100% sure this is the tip-top BT build but it is plenty dangerous. I couldn't handle the raiders in time, and didn't get into position fast enough to challenge him.

Warriors and Primes and Guns

Honestly, I think there's something to be said for keeping the devourers on your guys. You can get productivity out of them without having to assault (and you can't always asssault). If you have them with a prime, that's a good number of shots at a decent BS.

Regarding talons, well, it's a bit like this...if you have a decent WS (5+) then you'll hit most of your enemies on a 3+. Since you re-roll ones, you re-roll half of your misses (since you miss on a 1 or 2). I mean, obviously double talons is sweet, but I'm a bit partial to the guns. Call it more of a tactical decision, since with poison you're going to do fine with wounding.

Carnifexes

Alright...for 320 points, not bad. I lose a rupture cannon (and some points on top of that) but gain a decent anti-tank, anti-infantry assault unit. Even so, I've got to be careful about what I put them into. TH/SS termies can turn them into hash and keep going. I have to slap termagants into hard-core, low-volume-of-attack units and gum up the works, or throw warriors at them.

If I see dreadnoughts (barring ones with farce weapons...) or vehicles, or lower-strength guys, then it's time to party.

All in all, whip/sword/poison warriors can tag just about everything that a carnifex can (if not better) other than dreads and vehicles. I guess in that sense, it's a decent compliment.

Wrapup

I should've pressed up; he was gonna get a turn three assault any way I looked at it and I probably should've gotten better board position. Past that, sometimes the dice just don't help you out with killing high-value targets.

Feedback/Thoughts?