On Harpies

At last, I have finished my Harpy conversions. And, of course, I feel the need to share them and to wax poetic about the care, feeding, and employment of harpies. The first picture puts them alongside some devourer-packing Termagants for a sense of scale.

They are PRETTY. YES. THEY ARE. Side view. Coat hanger bracing FTW.

Another side view.

This is probably not what you want to see.

Construction

A cookie if you spotted the ingredients already. It's not an exhaustive list.

1) Old-school Hive Tyrant

2) Dragon Wings from WH Fantasy

3) Pair o' Venom Cannons from Warriors

4) pair o' scything talons from the trygon/mawloc kit.

The limbs were generally chosen for sake of scale. The general scale of the thing was built with transportability in mind. The wings are pinned on, as I simply could not make magnets work that well. They're secured to the base at two points; there's the coat hanger and there's an additional point on the tail, be it the base or the jutting building wreckage.

Tactics

Mobility

First off, the Harpy is fast, as it's basically monstrous jump infantry. It can get a good 12" move each turn and then fire off both of its weapon systems. However, synapse means that you will probably NOT use it to rush across the field, and frankly there's no need to close with the enemy that much. 18" is just fine for infantry-hunting, and 36" is fine for shooting at larger targets. Use the speed not to advance, but to set up shots.

Shooting

Honestly, you brought this thing because it's got guns. It starts with a twin-linked stranglethorn cannon, but I highly recommended paying 10 points to go to the twin heavy venom cannon. Why?

Simple: suppressive fire against vehicles. With twin-linked, the gun's got a base 50/50 shot of landing where you put it, just from rolling a hit with the scatter dice. More refined odds involve 2d6-3/ (size of the vehicle) and are a bit too tedious to put here. S9 has a good chance of glancing, and even with a -1 to damage from a penetrating hit it's likely to at least keep a vehicle from shooting, and will do damage 50% of the time on a good pen. Mostly, though, it's to shut those frakking tanks up for a bit. Use the mobility to line up flank shots if necessary, and you can always try to ping multi-wound T4 guys in a pinch.

In closer, you should've equipped Cluster Spines. Large blast, S5, AP-. Quantity over quality of hits, but it wounds most infantry pretty readily.

In really really close, you get the once-a-game Harpy Crap-over. You just have to move over an enemy model, and then you can barrage d3 S4 AP4 Large Blasts on top of them. Hilarity can ensue.

A word of warning: bad rolls on danger-close shots CAN hit you. As you are T5 with a 4+, it's reasonable to assume you can wounder yourself, and I kinda helped a harpy kill itself with its own large blasts.

Assault

Well, as a monstrous creature you ARE ignoring armor, and rolling 5+2d6 against vehicles. You get two base S5 hits, so pick your fights carefully: go for depleted units or go in with friends. You won't do much more than polish off a couple non-melee guys by yourself. Still, you do have Sonic Screech, which translates to assault grenades and making the enemy go at 1/2 initiative (rounded down), so if you can get buddies in there it's a good time to go to town.

Even so, I probably wouldn't try to fist-fight a dreadnought unless it's wounded or minus the Dreadnought CCW, since you'll get maybe one good penetrating hit on it in melee.

Durability

This is where some folks start quibbling about the 170pt price tag: you have four wounds at T5 with a 4+ save. At danger close, you can harm yourself with your own spore mine offal. Autocannons can ding you up, and a rail gun will break you in half.

I've got four answers for that:

1) in a pinch, hide behind another MC or grab cover if you can find it (or, say, a venomthrope).

2) ...so there's ONE ARMY that can insta-gib you at range. One. Crap happens. Are you seriously going to make your decisions based on ONE graphic mis-match? That's being a wee bit disingenuous.

3) Make sure harpies aren't the only monstrous creatures in your army, because, um, well, they won't like the attention.

4) when you get down to it, stuff like missile launchers and lascannons will wound you on a 2+ and take away your armor save ANYWAY, so how's the T5 and 4+ change that? Other than autocannons and rail guns, you're more or less identical to other MCs in terms of heavy weapons (...excepting heavy bolters, I'll grant, but they're not too common other than dakka-preds).

Overall

Harpies are mobile suppressive fire that get nastier up close. They're snipers with a point-defense system and some assault power. Use them to suppress/harass armor at range and from the flanks (since it's one of TWO guns that fire more than 24" and can harm vehicles in the 'nid book). If infantry closes, unload spore mines and cluster spines on them, and watch the wounds pile on. Take them as part of a shooty army (IE: consider Tyrannofexes, and/or hive guard/Venomthropes) to augment your long-range vehicle-harassing capabilities.

They're not all bad, but they're not auto-includes in all 'nid armies.

Tyranid MC-Heavy with Venomthropes

I apologize as it's been a while since I've posted; the Warmachine league's been in motion and I've been busy hacking away at that. Additionally, I've gotten a little 'eh' about running the same Tyranid army over and over again. I borrowed a Stelek army, the Venomthrope list in particular. It consists of:

Hive Tyrant; 2x Devourerers, Adrenal Glands, Paroxysm & Leech Essence
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
10 Termagants w/ Devourers
10 Termagants w/ Devourers
Tervigon w/ Catalyst
Tervigon w/ Catalyst
Harpy w/ Cluster Spines, TL Heavy Venom Cannon
Harpy w/ Cluster Spines, TL Heavy Venom Cannon
Tyrannofex w/ Cluster Spines, Rupture Cannon
Tyrannofex w/ Cluster Spines, Rupture Cannon
Carnifex w/ 2x TL Devourers, Adrenal Glands, Frag Spines

I admit it's got some stuff I'm not used to, like spending for Devourers on the Termagants and actually running a shooty-fex. On the other hand, I'm not used to being without Hive Guard and the Adrenal/Toxin glands on the Tervigons.

My opponent was one of my old disciples (assuming he doesn't mind me calling him that) and rolled with a good ol' Black Templar double Crusader list. It was something like:

Emperor's Chump w/ Preferred Enemy Vow
Marshal w/ hammer, shield, artificer armor
5 Terminators w/ Furious Charge (4 claws, one hammer/shield)
5 Terminators w/ Furious Charge (4 claws, one hammer/shield)
9-man Crusader Squad (Fist, Meltagun, 2x Newbs); Rhino
9-man Crusader Squad (Fist, Meltagun, 2x Newbs); Rhino
7-man Crusader Squad (Plamsa gun, lascannon)
MM/HF Speeder
MM/HF Speeder
Land Raider Crusader
Land Raider Crusader

Scenario: Annihilation
Setup: Dawn of War

Deployment

He set up the objective-camping Crusader Squad on a hill with a good, central shooting position, as he rolled to go first. I set up the Tervigons and the Hive Tyrant behind some cover. Since he's got the speed, I'm fine with going second. He's left his mechanized assets in reserve, because he might as well set up to react to my deployment, as my guys are much slower. I opt to not even try to seize the initiative.

Black Templar Turn 1

Fairly stock BT deployment: he puts the speeders as far downfield as he can, and keeps his troop transports in a central position. He decides that he'd rather put his objective-camping squad to use, and moves them up.

Tyranid Turn 1

Here's Tyranid deployment. I try to keep it central, angling a little towards one flank.

My shooting ends up exploding the speeder on the right, and I manage to shake up the speeder on the left. That's all my shooting does, but I'll take it. The Tervigons crap out a forward screen, as I think putting the Devourer-gants into that duty is a waste of some anti-infantry firepower.

Black Templar Turn 2

He boosts th speeder over to the flank, and gets the save. His objective-sitting squad hoofs it up the field, and that's about that.

Tyranid Turn 2

Of all things, the forward Termagant squad glances his speeder once, gets through the cover save, and immobilizes it. This is somewhat inconvenient for a fast skimmer that moved flat-out...it's vaguely anti-climatic as I'd positioned a fair amount of shooting to kill that thing off. My anti-vehicle shooting does crap-all past that, though my left-side squad of Devourer-gants and the Carnifex reduce the objective squad to a lascannon and plasma gun. They promptly flub their morale check, in dice luck that's going to be all too common for my opponent this time around.

Black Templar Turn 3

He moves up, popping smoke on the Rhino on my right flank. His other Rhino promptly immobilizes itself on terrain. Land Raider Crusaders disgorge their cargo and open fire, knocking some wounds off the Harpy on my right, and the Plasma gunner blows a termagant to hell.

Then, the dice make themselves known. The venomthrope dangerous terrain checks kill three terminators on their way in, then Terminators do what Termiantors do to anything they touch in close combat.

Tyranid turn three goes something like this:

Terminators on the left flank go away under a heap of devourer fire; two of them on the left flank go away. In my excitment at his ability to roll 1's repeatedly at armor saves, I forgot to take a picture. The others turn their guns on his disembarked marines, and it becomes a VERY inhospitable place as there's one plasmagunner left from one squad, and the other squad has a wounded Marshal, a meltagun, a Neophyte and a couple other space-bobs.

Black Templar Turn 4

The remaining two terminators get themselves dead because they have no Frag Grenades, and fourteen termagants are apparently angry. He puts more gunfire into my carnifex and the right-side harpy; they end up with one wound each. He's also unable to roll anything more than 1's to move his half-strength Crusader Squad; this includes the difficult terrain AND the run. Freakin' wow. He throws the other Crusader squad into my right flank and KOs the squad there. Big shock.

Tyranid Turn 4

The wounded carnifex breaks into a screaming run, finds itself a land raider, inflicts four penetrating hits on it and kills it. His commander eats two wounds and falls on a pair of 1's, and a withering barrage of devourer fire and templates kill them off.

The harpy on the right (which is conspicuously absent from this pictures) flew over that Crusader squad, took a spore mine dump on it, killed some, took a shot with cluster spines, scattered the spines onto itself, wounded itself, and killed itself. EPIC FAIL.

The Tyrannofex wanders into the survivors of that squad. It eats a couple of wounds, then steps on the Emperor's Chump repeatedly.

Final

He has a Land Raider Crusader and Rhino left at the end. This has been one of the most comprehensive crub-stomps I've seen, and honestly? It was the dice. I've never seen that many 1's that fast for armor saves so often. He played it pretty much correctly, though when you get down to it Double Land Raider Crusader + Terminators = straightforward plan. I throw up termagant screens, hope they'll hold, try to take out Termiantors before they can do too much damage.

Thoughts on the Tyranid Army

I'm beginning to see some of the logic behind this army. The Venomthropes were inordinately effective with regards to forcing dangerous terrain checks, but costing the enemy extra attacks and giving me cover saves is nice. After the game, he wondered if he would've been better off trying to potshot them with a lascannon, but I'm not too sure, since the answer is 'go to ground for the 3+' if it's not 'hide behind something scary.'

That IS a lot of monstrous creature love. The Harpies are the least durable, and their speed is more of a 'rapid response' thing than a 'look at me I'm fast!' thing. The thing is, their firepower is somewhat comparable to the Tyrannofex, but they're only useful for the suppressing aspect on vehicles. Sometimes, shutting the guns up is enough. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by the Harpies. I expect to have pictures of them up eventually, as they're now on the paint bench.

Devourer Termagants are a NASTY anti-infantry shooty force. Even at BS3, that's still 30 S4 shots. THey don't go on the front lines, but since they don't have enough AP to make it worthwhile.

I can even see the point of the Carnifex; the shooting is lovely and there's that whole S10-against-vehicles thing that's nice. That's one of the downsides of thea rmy; the Tyrannofex guns are the only real way to kill vehicles at range, but that's enough Devourerers to say 'slow down a little there,' and you can punch the crap out of them in a pinch.

Final

I'll be curious to test this army against other matchups, as I feel this would've been closer had he not rolled a crap-ton of ones. I would've had to commit monstrous creatures to close combat, and probably taken more losses. I know that's a pretty solid Black Templar build, but sometimes the dice just kill you, hard.

More Thoughts on Tyrands, Post-FAQ, and Other News

I'll start with the 'Other News.' Posts have slowed down to an extent, and there are two reasons for that:

1) Work was consuming my soul gradually

2) I started playing Warmachine/Hordes

That being said (and despite some bottled-up annoyances/disillusionment with GW) I don't intend to out-and-out quit 40k. I mean, I own Eldar, Tyranid, Tau, and Black Templar armies and the nucleous of a basic loyalist space marine army. That's a hell of a lot of money to just walk away from, and I'm not too into selling it off when I'm just drawing down the game a bit.

That being said, since this blog gets a lot of 40k traffic and I tend to blog based on my experiences (Hey, writing it down is educational for me AND sometimes helpful to the community) I'm likely to start up a Warmachine-based Spite Blog. (Shameless Plug: Check out Spite for the Unblighted. )

I still intend to post 2-4 reasonably in-depth articles for Warhammer 40k a month, but I'd like to chronicle my experiences with Warmachine/Hordes as well.

Ok, we've got the 'other' part out of the way.

Down to the Bugs

So, what's changed for what I'll take in an army with Tyranids? Annoyed though I am, here's the list of stuff that I'm less likely to take because it's a pain in the tail to get +2 to reserves rolls:

1) Drop Pod Zoanthropes

These guys got kicked in the balls by the ruling. Look, when you've got an 18" gun of DEATH for vehicles, well, you might be a target priority. Just saying. And you're the main way this army stops Land Raiders? Ouch.

Not to get ranty, but either you hope the other guy lets you shoot his Land Raiders/expensive tanks with your Zoanthropes, or you um, y'know, get hosed/hope your MCs can assault them.

2) Anything Else in a Drop Pod

Ok, honestly, what makes me nervous about facing Drop Pod marines/outflanking IG skimmers and the like is the part where it craps out template and/or melta weapons in their preferred range. We can crap out Warriors or a heap of Hormagaunts, which are considerably less scary. The stuff with guns gets to shoot them when they arrive. Our guys have to wait a turn to move into position, and if Synapse isn't close, you have to hope you make that Instinctive Behavior check. If you're not in cover, then, well, ouch. So long. Nice knowing you, little guys.

3) Trygons

Ok, sure, technically you can keep them in on the table, but if you want to get to the enemy (Hey, T6, 6 wounds and a 3+ with a model THAT freakin' tall, you aren't getting cover at all, ever. Sorry. Wait, are there MISSILE LAUNCHERS on the other side of the table? Oh, s- BOOM!).

Best-case scenario: arrive turn two, weather a turn of gunfire. Turn three, assault something. Hope to stay in assault. (It worked once: hit a big squad of IG, and his COMMISSAR decided to be an epic hero and held in assault against 5 genestealers and a Trygon during my assault phase. Then he died so very, very horribly in his...). Turn four, repeat.

Downside? You don't start being that productive until the turn after you arrive. 6-12 shots off your personal static electricty at a mighty BS3 do NOT actually make you that scary in shooting; it's like giving a helicopter pilot a sidearm: it gives them something productive to do when they're shot down and waiting to get killed off for raining hellfire missiles on folks.

4) Mawlocs

Best-case scenario? Arrive turn two, deep-strike onto something. Hilarity ensues. Turn three, thank the enemy for NOT killing it, fall back into reserves. Turn four, emerge again for more hilarity. If you still exist in turn five, think long and hard about going back underground or staying topside, since you give away your points if you're in reserves on turn five and turn six doesn't roll around.

Outside of popping up and screwing up stuff, you have a mighty WS3 and three base S6 monstrous creature attacks. Hope no one wants to assault you, and if no one does, consider assaulting them.

5) Any of Your Other Elites

Seriously, unless it's a Venomthrope, has anyone else even taken other Elites choices? I mean, a walking flamethrower is cool and all, and so are Ymgarl stealers (at least in theoryhammer) but that means giving away all your shooting, which just doesn't do much. (Except for my last game against 'nids as Tau; watching the other guy seize the initiative and his one Tyrannofex popping your Hammerheads on turns one and two while they kill a mighty total of FOUR hormagaunts is, um...I needed some Jack straight; not Gentleman Jack because I was just going to THROW IT DOWN THE HATCH and that'd be rude to the good stuff...)

So, What Now?

Well, frankly, most of the time a solid core for a list for me starts with 20 Termagants, 2 Tervigons, and 6 Hive Guard. This is still 490 points of troops and another 300 points and 2-3 of your Elites choices.

As it stands, then, there are a couple of lists I'm down to considering.

1) Shooty Bugs

Take 3 Tyrannofexes and a Prime. You're at 1680. At this point I consider either more shooting (you might be able to fit in a couple of Harpies with Heavy Venom Cannons) or some mid-range shooty/assault support in the form of a warrior squad, or even filling out my Fast Attack with Spore Mines for the laughs.

2) Horde Bugs

Take a couple of Primes as HQs, take six Hive Guard, three Venomthropes and three Tyrannofexes. This costs you a minimum of 1420 (ok, maybe drop a tyrannofex) and then fill the rest of that with things that scuttle and bite.

Hope you don't meet Land Raiders or mech spam.

3) Try Reserves Anyway

Now, thing is, there's STILL a way to get +2 to reserves off the bat; you take the Swarmlord AND a Hive Tyrant, because Alien Cunning and Hive Commander still stack. Here's what I can think of as a prototype for that list:

Still Looking For That +2 Reserves, Thank You Very Much...

Swarmlord [280]

-3 Tyrant Guard w/ Lash Whips [195]

Hive Tyrant [220]

-Heavy Venom Cannon

-Lash Whip/Bone Sword

-Hive Commander

-Leech Essence, Paroxysm

Tyrant Guard w/ Lash Whip [65]

2 Hive Guard [100]

2 Hive Guard [100]

2 Hive Guard [100]

11 Termagants [55]

11 Termagants [55]

Tervigon [195]

-Catalyst

-Adrenal Glands

-Toxin Sacks

Tervigon [195]
-Catalyst
-Adrenal Glands
-Toxin Sacks

7 Genestealers w/ Toxin Sacks [119]

Mawloc [160]

Mawloc [160]

Total: 1999/2000

Thoughts

I feel light on shooting, but that's because I don't have Tyrannofexes. On the flip side, I can ram the Swarmlord down someone's throat with Feel No Pain, and potentially threaten them with the other Hive Tyrant.

The Mawlocs and Genestealers are supposed to make folks worry; with the Swarmlord I can reliably place them on the side I want, and then the Mawlocs SHOULD be there on turn two. Hopefully I've put the enemy into disarray, and then the brick of tyranids starts advancing.

Cons? My significant shooting doesn't reach past 24", as the Heavy Venom Cannon will at best annoy the other guy by making his heavy armor not shoot for a turn, or if I'm lucky take a gun off. (which is cool against people with just one main gun, mind you...).

What would I change? I'd frankly LOVE to get another big critter in there. As it is, I could maybe drop a Hive Guard off the Swarmlord and lose the Genestealers, then go up to a third Mawloc and find a place to put that other ~25 points.

Anyway, thoughts/curses/well-wishes/rotten produce? I'm looking at you, TKE.

Tyranid FAQ: A Slight Rant

This is a slight rant, but more an expression of some disappointment in the Tyranid FAQ. Honestly, this blog tends not to get a lot of my ranting posted on it, and I think there are folks that tend to do it in a more entertaining fashion. As such, I turn to the internet for pictures of cats with captions to express my feelings.

I want to start by saying that the 'nid FAQ is not all bad.

Honestly, GW deserves serious props for answering contentious questions clearly and concisely.

"Doom hits stuff in vehicles, y/n?" Nope. It's clear, concise, and resolves a contentious issue.

"Is the Mawloc really supposed to be able to deep strike into stuff?" Yes.

"Can I single out a Tyrant with a retinue of Guard?" Nope.

These are clarifications that are handy. It would have been nice to have it in the codex to begin with, and the near half-year of waiting for it is a wee bit annoying. But, it's clear now, and it's stuff we wanted/needed clarified.

There's really one major disappointment, as far as I'm concerned:

Hive Commander Does Not Stack.

Big deal, you say? Well, it honestly doesn't come as a surprise. The IG Advisor that buffs reserves doesn't stack, either. So, why is this getting to me?

Tyranids have a fair assortment of deep-strike-capable units, including:

1) Pretty much every foot-mobile troops choice via mycetic spores (and Raveners...)

2) Spore-podding Zoanthropes

3) Various jump troops (Gargoyles, Shrikes, winged Tyrants)

4) Trygons

5) Mawlocs

Note that marines that rely on reserves have buffs for them; a full drop-pod army can guarantee half of it arrives early (well, unless you're Dark Angels or Black Templar). Blood Angels, whose schtick is falling from the sky screaming with jump packs, get a buff on that reserve roll, too. Sheesh, even Daemons can guarantee half of a deep-striking army arrives (albeit, the rest of their special rules and unit selection works to offset that...).

The Implications

Now, on the bright side, spores and trygons cannot deviate into units (and the Mawloc WANTS to, so yeah). On the down side, the best you can get for a reserves buff is +1 to the roll. So, if you want to see your units arrive anything other than piecemal, you want to bring multiples. Common sense, right? Here's the problem:

The more deep strikers you bring to make sure you get enough of them early, the less you have on the table.

This is called 'handing yourself over piecemal.' Too little on the table, and you might not have much of it left when the backup arrives. It's bloody challenging to try to make heavy deep-striking work. Most deep-striking units are going to be around 200 points. Trygons are 200 base; Mawlocs are around 160-170; pods are 30 points and a Warrior squad is easily 200 points. Hormagaunts are a toss-up because Feed - Synapse = potential hilarity ensuing if the enemy can bait you somewhere. (Or just drop a couple flamers on you, then it's a BBQ...I wonder if they scream like lobsters when broiled?).

So, I want two of my deep-striking units to arrive and threaten the enemy on turn two so I can hit him on turn three. I take three deep-striking units (IE: three Trygons). 600 points of the army, easy. I add in a hive tyrant + guard, 250-300 points (admittedly, it's also a nasty unit in its own right and a melee rock for smashing over someone's skull, AND a quality psychic unit). Then, I hope that the enemy army can't nuke 'em both, and I try to threaten him. I also hope that I can roll well, because most armies CAN handle a single Trygon in a turn. You buy some time, lose a Trygon, and then they show up turn three and you hope that they have time to do enough damage (Because they won't hit assault 'til turn 4, now...).

Second-order implications

Ok, I'm probably mis-using the term, but if deep-striking isn't so reliable, it follows that I want to make sure other items in my army ARE reliable. Let's go to that contest Elites slot, which is usually a Hive Guard vs Zoanthrope debate. Now, Zoanthropes are short-ranged, and there are two ways to try to shore that up: Onslaught (hope you roll well on that run...) and Mycetic Spores, which can deliver you into Warp Lance range.

Well, assuming you get the reserves roll right. So, you've put 2-3 Elites slot into Zoanthropes in pods, and you might have a Venom Cannon on the tyrant(s). Zoeys are already more or less single-use (Ok, you might get more, but do you really want to gamble on that?), and frankly, I'd like my anti-tank on the table fast to keep the enemy from doing damage to me. They're a little less reliable, now.

Bottom Line

What's this mean, overall? Less options for effective builds. That's my major complaint about the Hive Commander 'clarification.' Double hive commander can no longer get me results similar to a drop pod assault. Drop pod marines? Reliable and nasty. Reserving 'nids? Asking to come in piecemal.

Honestly, it feels like unless I'm wearing power armor or flak armor, I should get accustomed to fewer options.

Honestly, it's a hit. Pure and simple. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, from a standpoint of promoting versatile builds. It's not encouraging me to go out and buy 9 Zoanthropes (...ok, the cost was kind of keeping me from that anyway). It makes me a little annoyed I have three Trygons, and it makes me wish there was a freaking official model for the Tyrannofex (since it's pretty much the only heavy support choice I run for a serious build).

Anyone else feel like this? I'm kind of annoyed when I get all psyched up, have a couple builds ready, and then my models get FAQ'ed.

Swarmlord & Friends: Abbreviated After Action

I apologize, as there would've been pictures had I had any brainpower left after dealing with a day of epic-level stupidity at work. I just have no words to describe it adequately; someone talking about training suggested a mentorship for letting the new guys learn 'the why behind the what.' I have to say that knowing the 'why' is kind of like being the protagonist in one of Lovecraft's shorts: the knowledge brings only pain and insanity.

So. That aside, here was the situation:

'Nids
Swarmlord + 3 Whip-packing Guard
3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
Deathleaper
10 Termagants
11 Termagants
Tervigon w/ Onslaught, Catalyst
Tervigon w/ Onslaught, Catalyst
8 Genestealers w/ Poison
Trygon w/ Furious Charge
Trygon w/ Furious Charge

Vs

Imperial Guard
Co. Command w/ Meltas, Vox, Chimera (laser/flamer)
Co. Command w/ Vox
Chimera Melta Vets
Infantry Platoon
'toon command, vox
20 guys w/ 2 Lascannons, Commissar, couple power weapons, vox
30 guys w/ commissar, 3 autocannons, some power weapons, vox
Special Weapons Squad w/ flamers
Heavy Weapons Team w/ missile launchers
Hellhound w/ hull MM
Hellhound w/ hull MM
Leman Russ w/ Sponson bolters, pintle stubber, lascannon
Leman Russ w/ Sponson bolters, pintle stubber, lascannon
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ hull flamer

Scenario
Capture and Control, Pitched Battle Deployment

The Battle in Brief
IG won the first go. He deployed an objective in a corner, screened by his footbound infantry. Russes in central deployment, with melta-vets and a hellhound on either flank. I put my objective across from his, and hung on the side across from him. Hive Guard on one side and in the middle; and a fairly even split of assets past that. I failed to seize.

Turns 1 and 2
I have to admit that off the bat, he had some awesome shooting and I couldn't roll a save worth a crap. I lost two hive guard, a couple wounds off the Swarmlord, and took some damage here and there. Notably, the Hive Guard had to Onslaught into position in the middle, flub their shooting horribly, and lose two of them to counter-fire from a hellhound, the demolisher, and melta. I only really suppress ONE of the bloody hellhounds...ouch.

But, come my turn two, Swarmlord's still around...and I get everything. The Genestealers appear on the correct flank (the one with assault targets as opposed to the flank waaaay out there with nothing to hit) and promptly grab themselves a 20-man + commissar squad (Deathleaper had penalized the Commissar's leadership and at least tried to work that angle...). Punchline: due to a Trygon scattering to an inch of that squad, he couldn't pile in for crap. Ouch.

Insult to injury: he gets a hellhound and a chimera hull flamer into termagants; kills a whopping 4 out of 10, between rolling a heap of 1's with the hellhound and the other squad makes some awesome feel no pain rolls.

Turns 3 and 4
Sadly, he'd committed his melta assets too early to harming the Swarmlord and one flank's hive guard. I managed to take those out in the previous turns, so he had about a turn before the Trygons went to town on me. He managed to shoot the crap out of them, but kill neither. His commissar takes out another genestealer, and they hold on turn 3. Punchline: he holds out as the last man on HIS turn, staring at four genestealers (...yes, he killed the other four in the squad) and a Trygon that are Not Amused.

The other Trygon ate itself a russ, and grabbed a position for the assault on his objective.

My turn 3 gets gruesome; his stuff starts dying. Deathleaper popped out behind the Vendetta, hit a shot, and wrecked it. Thank you, flesh hooks. The special weapons team managed to flub their morale check, and my original 11 termagants had more or less made it across the field.

By his turn four, he's got a stunned hellhound looking at a hungry Tervigon, a pinned squad of flamers looking at an advancing group of Termagants, a lone missile launcher looking at 8 angry termagants, my objective firmly in hand, and the four genestealers, two tervigons, and Swarmlord looking at his objective hungrily. I have two hive guard left; one of them survived a heap of shots only to go down to an exploding hellhound.

As the store was planning to close, we called it at the end of my turn four. I had two Trygons into a 30-man squad suffering from Paroxysm, and four genestealers had cleaned his other command squad off his objective and were contesting it (might have had it after pile-in moves). Deathleaper had pegged his other Russ and tear off the cannon.

Thoughts on the New (to me) Units
Swarmlord and Buddies
Frankly, 3 tyrant guard are pretty much essential; against gun-heavy lists if they want him dead, you'll need all the protection you can get (and Catalyst). He made it to turn two by the skin of his teeth, and then they had more immediate threats. My opponent DID target him explicitly to try to screw up my reserves plan.

Against Guard, honestly, a bunch of S6 preferred-enemy insta-gib attacks that force re-rolls on invulnerable saves is just a little bit of overkill in assault.

Deathleaper
This is the first time I've fielded him, and I can see the merit. Admittedly, all he really did was make one guard squad Ld8 stubborn instead of Ld9. I think I might have played him conservatively, but the thing is that assaulting the 20-30 man squads is not gonna work, and the missile team can insta-gib him. Threatening rear shots on vehicles is reasonably nasty, but I think it's just a matter of target selection this time around.

Onslaught on Tervigons
Catalyst will still be my go-to power. I went with catalyst for two reasons:
1) get Swarmlord into position while still being able to use his powers
2) extra range on Hive Guard

I feel justified on number two as I've got all of two shooty units, and I need to get as much use as possible out of them. If I can get another turn of shooting out of them because of extra movement (or making up for a craptastic Difficult Terrain roll) then it's worth it. In this army, the Swarmlord is probably gonna get Catalyst, so that leaves an Onslaught to hand out.

Trygons
Getting them in early helps, and getting them in with as many threats as possible helps. Coming in on a 3+ helps, and the genestealers are also a credible threat, especially if the enemy's close to the flanks. Still, if I get them in early, they'll do damage. The enemy gets...one turn...to drop them.

Genestealers
Frankly, the Swarmlord makes them work a little better. I get the reserves bonus (well, it's mandatory under Alien Cunning) but I also get a re-roll on the side they arrive. Since there's normally a 66% chance of making it in on the desired side, Swarmlord bumps that up to 88%.

Poison is useful for boosting lethality, pure and simple. 'Stealers have S4 and I6; S4 is really the place to be for poison outside of S6 (as S4 + poison on 4+ translates to 75% chance to wound per hit against most infantry) and you don't really NEED I7. You do get a slight perk as it gives you another chance to see a rend on toughness-based targets. It translates to about a 25% chance to score a rend per hit if you get the re-roll.

Bottom line, though, with the Swarmlord the outflank becomes a serious consideration, because your enemy has to assume that you WILL get them on the correct side more often than not. The 'stealers force your enemy to avoid keeping stationary vehicles close to the edge (...not necessarily an issue unless it's a gun platform) and make sure everyone's got terrain in the way. It doesn't make them an auto-include in the army, but I think a unit CAN be a performer.

Overall
Honestly, both me and my opponent were a little out of practice, so there's that to factor in. The play was not top form, and the dice were a bit wonky (average on the long run, but some wild swings on the individual rolls, like my early 3+ save fails and inability to fail later on).

I think the Swarmlord works okish with this setup. I do miss having three groups of hive guard for the ability to split fire (both incoming and outgoing). I think Deathleaper is much nastier when I'm screwing over psykers. I think the Swarmlord IS a bit hit-or-miss, as sometimes that kind of melee killing power is overkill.

Certainly, Trygons + Genestealers can throw someone on the back foot, and if the enemy commits assets too early, well, they get hurt.

Other experiences with the Swarmlord?

Special thanks to Chumbalaya for recommending genestealers on that count...

Pondering the Swarmlord

I've been thinking about what I'd like to do to get away from the usual list I run that centers around Hive Guard and Tervigons and Tyrannofexen. It's usually led by a Tyranid Prime. So, I figured I'd turn around and go for the big nasty in our HQ choices: the Swarmlord.

On the Swarmlord
First off: the Swarmlord can grab preferred enemy, and inflicts instant death and forces re-rolls on invulnerable saves. He's also the only unit outside of Zoanthropes to have an invulnerable save in the book. Neat, huh?

Beyond that, he's prime psychic support. All the powers you'd want (...not that a lot of them are that awe-inspiring outside of Paroyxsm) and the ability to fire off two in a turn. On the downside, the bulk of your psychic powers are shooting attacks, but you've got no fleet and the urge to crush face in assault. But, we have a way around this conundrum: Onslaught! And Tervigons are cool as is, so it's not like you're necessarily sacrificing anything to get 'em.

The other big perk is 'Swarm Leader.' During your shooting phase, you can give a unit within 18" Preferred Enemy, Furious Charge, or Acute Senses. All nice, yes? If the Swarmlord is going in himself, he's probably going to grant himself Preferred Enemy. Most units you have that you want in assault have or can readily get Furious Charge, and Acute Senses is so-so. The prime scenario I envision (other than a preferred-enemy Swarmlord) is something like a heap of preferred-enemy fully-glanded unit of Termagants going into a unit of whatever you like being subjected to Paroxysm.

So, the Swarmlord is a brute. What do do put with him? Here's a brainstorm I had with the idea of using a Swarmlord and some of the other stuff I've been painting recently.

Swarmlord and Friends
Swarmlord [280]
-3x Hive Guard w/ Lash Whips [195]

Elites
3 Hive Guard [150]
3 Hive Guard [150]
Deathleaper [140]

Troops
Terivgon [210]
-Cluster Spines
-Toxin Sacks, Adrenal Glands
-Catalyst
-Onslaught

Terivgon [210]
-Cluster Spines
-Toxin Sacks, Adrenal Glands
-Catalyst
-Onslaught

10 Termagants [50]
11 Termagants [55]

Fast Attack
4 Raveners w/ Rending Claws [140]

Fast Attack
Trygon w/ Adrenal Glands [210]
Trygon w/ Adrenal Glands [210]

Total: 2000/2000

Thoughts
Swarmlord gets a full tyrant guard because, oh, I'm pretty sure people would rather shoot him to death before he does something drastic (like get into assault). Tyrant Guard get whips as a measure of cutting costs and to back up the swarmlord; no one really needs to go before him as far as I'm concerned.

Elites? Not a big surprise. Requisite six hive guard, and Deathleaper is in there to try to cripple any psychic hoods or enemy psykers.

Troops are kind of the same as usual; it's the Tervigon core. The only difference is that they pack Catalyst and Onslaught alike. Why Onslaught? Well, Hive Guard are nasty but only have a 24" range, and the Swarmlord wants to push ahead and still benefit from his psychic powers.

The Raveners and Trygons are a bit of 'I want to try something new' and they're assault-oriented. I'd love five raveners, but I'm just short of it (I had 25 left; that went to Adrenal Glands on the Trygons and the requisite spare Termagant. Plus, I've got some reserves manipulation. I should be able to get 2-3 of them in on turn two, and since the whole army is running at you and baying for your blood,* well, yeah...

So, thoughts/feedback? Swears?

*...I'm pretty sure tyranids actually advance silently, according the fluff. It just makes it creepier.

Tyranids in Drop Pods: More Thinking Involved

I blame this in part on Chumbalaya for making me think more, and blame work for not getting to it sooner.

In part, I'd like to get out of my comfort zone; I usually play with som hive guard, tervigons, and usually tyrannofexes past that. Is it solid? Reasonably so. However, it IS potentially a rut, and I don't think I'm using all the 'nid codex can give me, and frankly, I picked it up over Tau and Eldar because I wanted variety in my builds.

With that in mind, I'm going to run down stuff I think might or might not fit into a 'nid drop-pod/reserves list.

A Crucial Difference

Now, the other well-known arrives-in-pods lists is, of course, the Space Marines. One of the things that Marines can do that I like is bring units suited for engaging multiple targets, AND make sure they get what they want when they want it (well, other than the BT codex; the others get Drop Pod Assault) and can usually bring units capable of engaging a variety of targets (IE: MM/HF dreads, MM/flamer tac squads, combi-toting Sternguard, etc.).

Tyranids? We tend not to have as much duality, so I've got to get away from my preconceptions of what a drop-pod list 'can' do, and think about a Mycetic Spore list.

So, on to the choices, run down by Force Org slots.

HQs

Tyrants

Hive Tyrants get Hive Commander, our reserves manipulation. You get two things for the 25 points: first, +1 to reserves (optional unless it's the Swarmlord) and you get to designate one unit to outflank.

Tyrants can take wings for speed/mobility, or take a couple guard for durability and give you a 'starts on table' core. I'd think about either whip/sword + heavy venom, or look into devourerers. The Guard can probably run naked.

Tyranid Primes

Primes really only give you two things in a spore list: more points to play with, and the ability to slap synapse into any unit. The former means you're not getting the Hive Commander perk, and the latter gives you the ability to slap it in with 19 hormagaunts for comedic value.

HQs Overall

I have to lean towards Tyrants here. I think you need to try Spores at a larger points level to get enough, and because you want a Tyrant or two to make sure you can get them there.

Elites

Again, this is where we're getting the guns. For that reason, I'm not gonna touch the other reserves.

Zoanthropes vs Hive Guard

This is your big question, honestly. I think if you're gonna focus on pods, you should give serious thought to Zoanthropes. Zoeys are your 'kills the tank' option. If you're reserving Hive Guard, there's the issue of getting them into range, or starting with enough on the table to mak sure they don't get splattered on turn one.

Deathleaper?

Ok, you're taking Deathleaper for one reason: you want your Zoanthropes to get Warp Lance off. That's why you brought them. Deathleaper can give you better odds; even a Ld9 hood is a decent step up in chances to win the dice-off. If you manage an average d6 roll and knock them to Ld8 for the hood, then so much the better: it's pretty much sunk.

That aside, Deathleaper is ALSO just plain fun to field. You're NOT bringing him for the whole +1 to reserves, since he has to be on the field to use it.

Troops

Well, we need 'em. I think you can get serious mileage out of Tervigons/Termagants, though Warriors are also a nasty thing to put in a pod.

Tervigon/Termagant

But a Tervigon doesn't fit in a pod! Ok, wait. Go read Hive Commander. I'm not always a fan of outflanking, but a Tervigon has the potential to open up a whole new front in a fight when they walk on. First there's one, then there's 10 termagants, then 20...and you suddenly have to worry about that.

Termagants, well, you can slap them in pods, or just run them normally. You can at least buy pods for them and have the option, and I might think (I'm not sure how long) about throwing Devourers onto them for range, and for the ability to lay down a reasonably withering torrent of fire should I decide to land them and shoot things. I mean, a minimal 10-man squad IS throwing out 30 dice.

Warriors

Frankly, you're running these as a Deathstar distraction. 5-6 of them, whips/swords, devourers and a venom cannon. Ok shooting, but NO ONE wants that hitting the lines next turn. No one. You're looking at close to 300 points for that assembly, but it DOES have to be taken seriously. However, IG with russes might just LOL at this and feed it pie, but that's part of the game. Then you can cry a little.

Hormagaunts

Now, you CAN slap 20 of these in a pod, or 19 plus Prime. Frankly, I think this falls under a similar use as Warriors, though cheaper. Do worry about flamers, but on the other hand, Hormies CAN pretty much auto-pilot. The downside? If you're outside of synapse, they might just throw a tank at the hormies and laugh; if they move it well enough it might take a couple of glances but they can buy time.

Fast Attack

Frankly, there are two choices here for deep-striking: Raveners and Shrikes. I don't think Harpies have a place in a deep-striking list; while they can, you want them on the field shooting, and they benefit from having other targets to draw fire. I mean, they ARE only T5 with 4 wounds and a 4+ save. Target saturation is a survival mechanism for them.

Raveners

These are your cheap deep-strikers. 35 points a head for beasts with rending claws and speed 'On you next turn!' I like them because with rending claws and a solid volume of attacks, they're a legitimate threat to vehicles AND troops (...though should probably avoid Dreadnoughts, especially AV13 front-armor ones...)

The only downside is that compared to the rest of your army, they're less adept at deep-striking since they have no defense against a mishap.

Shrikes

Go read the warrior entry; remove the pod, add wings and reduce save to a 5+. Take the speed of 'on you next turn.' If you thought Warriors would draw fire, these things will SERIOUSLY do it. However, they're also 50 points a head for whip/sword + scything talons, and they do give up their ability to shoot in order to beomce adept at melee. Limits them somewhat, but seriously, they're gonna be assaulting something and praying they don't hit a dreadnought.

Given the cost, though, I'd almost lean towards regular warriors because I can put them in a drop pod and make SURE they land alive, instead of scattering a 250+ point unit off the table. Whoops.

Heavy Support

I'm inclined to look at three choices for heavy support in context of a drop pod list: Tyrannofexes, Carnifexes, and Trygons.

Tyrannofex?

Ok, it doesn't fly/fall with style. Why is it in here? Simple. It has the range to come on from reserves and contribute from the get-go. It's tough enough to survive all but the heaviest of firepower (or at least the highest of AP...) for a few turns. And, as long as you have the enemy on the back foot, they probably won't tie it up in melee. Failing that, it still has nasty close-in firepower with the flamer and cluster spines, and the durability to deal with melee for a turn or two unless they brought a heap of poison boneswords or powerfists.

...Carnifexes?!

Blame it on Chumbalaya, but I think he's got a point here. Twin-linked devouerers won't KILL vehicles, but it WILL allow a Carnifex to throw out some suppressing fire. I admit I haven't tested this theory out, but I can see some potential.

You're taking the Carnie for suppressive fire. A dozen S6 shots at BS3 twin-linked should quite down/stop most lighter vehicles, and if you can nail it with S9+2d6 melee attacks after that, you've probably solved a tank problem.

You ARE losing your re-rolls in melee and paying 190 points + pod for the thing, but it's one of the few versatile(ish) choices we can drop in. In a pinch, it's got a reasonable(ish) chance at passing Instinctive Behavior, and the enemy is pretty much sacrificing anything used as bait against it, or they're killing it.

Trygons

Pretty simple: survive a first turn of fire, then assault things with a heap of S6 MC attacks with re-rolls to hit. I'd think about finding points for Adrenal Glands, if only because S6+2d6 has given me issues against heavier armor often enough. It's also an edge if you attack other monstrous creatures (wounding on 3+ against T6? Yes please?).

Loading Out the Spores

Base 40 points, and you get some S6 attacks out to six inches. It'll do something if you actually land close enough to hit the enemy, but that's cutting it close. You have two real weapon options, the way I see it: Cluster Spines give you a large blast for your crap BS, and a Heavy Venom Cannon can potentially suppress vehicles. However, the guns ARE an investment in points, and I'd probably look to those last.

Overall

I've got whiskey and Mass Effect calling my name now (and some frustration because Blogger decided to try to EAT the post...). I am curious to hear from others who've tried reserves-heavy 'nid lists, and faced them. I think it can work, I think the tools are there, I just think it's gonna have to run it differently than other ones.

Thoughts, feedback, and insults are welcome.

Reader's Choice/Requests on Tyranids

It's been almost two weeks since my last post. In part, I've not really managed to get a game in; last weekend things went nuts and poor communication this time around meant I lurked in a gaming store for a bit, then bought some foam for my Warmachine project.

Lately, I've been delving into the 'nids. I think I'm getting comfortable with some of the ways they play, but admittedly, I've not yet tried everything with them.

Stuff I have Used
Primes
Footslogging Melee Warriors
Tervigon/Termagant Core
Hive Guard
Tyrannofexes

These, I'm pretty comfortable with.

Stuff I have NOT used so much
Trygons
Hive Tyrants
Zoanthropes
Hormagaunts
Mycetic Spores
Biovores
Harpies
Lictors
Raveners

I'm curious to hear what readers have thought of these. Please, share experiences both in fielding them (bonus points if you provide context of lists/scenario...) and in fighting against them.

I admit I'd like to try Hormies and Raveners, and I'll EVENTUALLY get those bloody harpies converted...

Stuff I Don't Use Much, But Have A Pretty Firm Opinion ON
Spore Mines
-90pt filler/diversion, or look elsewhere

Carnifexes
-I'd not take more than a couple of 2x scything talon in a brood, if that.
-No, frag spines are NOT really worth it. The only time you really care about them is charging heaps of powerfists in cover, and powerfists will generally kill you.

Venomthropes
-Solid support, BUT only in certain builds.

Pyrovores
-....why? Competes with your honest-to-god shooty units and kills infantry. What do we have that CAN'T carve up infantry in other slots

THere are probably others.

At any rate, I'm looking to viewers/readers for inspiration here. Work's been more insane than usual, so I've got less brainpower to go around.

Carnifex Support v BT Land Raiders

Alright, I've had this batrep sitting for a bit, but it's been a busy week. Also, the game's a bit hazy-ish since I saw Iron Man 2 at 11:45 the night before, so yeah. At any rate, I'd intended to test Carnifexes out as a support element.

Tyranids
Prime w/ Whip, Sword
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
Tervigon w/ Catalyst, toxin/adrenal
Tervigon w/ Catalyst, toxin/adrenal
5 Warriors; whips/swords, 4 Devourers, Venom Cannon
2 Carnifexes
Tyrannofex w/ Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines
Tyrannofex w/ Rupture Cannon, cluster spines

As you can see, it's a reasonably basic shooty setup. Warriors and two carnifexes provide assault power, tervigons and termagants provide board control. I've got plenty of synapse, and against tougher melee adversaries I can chuck the Prime in with the Warriors to give them WS6 and BS4. I opted for guns on the warriors so if I can't assault, I still have SOME damage output, and losing the scything talons (when it's just one pair) isn't necessarily that harmful.

VERSUS Black Templar
Emperor's Chump, Preferred Enemy Vow
5 Terminators [4 Claws, 1 Hammer, Furious Charge]
5 Terminators [4 Claws, 1 hammer, furious charge]
7-man squad w/ las, plas
7-man squad w/ las, plas
Crusader Squad w/ Fist, Meltagun in Rhino w/ EA, Smoke
Crusader Squad w/ Fist, Meltagun in Rhino w/ EA, Smoke
MM/HF Speeder
MM/HF Speeder
Land Raider Crusader w/ EA, smoke
Land Raider Crusader w/ EA, smoke

This differs from his previous version in that he dropped the 81pt Grey Knight Brother-Captain, and added more troops to his various squads. Still, it's a nasty Big Freaking Rock army. Double raiders mean you CAN get at least one squad there, and with re-rolls and furious charge lightning claws, well, most stuff with a toughness value goes away.

Scenario
Deployment: Dawn of War
Objectives: 5 objective markers
BT wins first-turn roll-off; tyranids seize the initative.

Tyranid Turn 1

I start with my Tervigons on the table; they crap out a front line and everyone else runs on. He starts with the camping las/plas squads; I've highlighted them in a red box and put the objectives in the red circles. Given the deployment sides, I've got to press forward and grab objectives; he needs to hold his line and secure one of those across the table from him.

My Tervigon on the right promptly runs dry.

Templar Turn 1

Lots of stuff drives on. His las/plas squads opt to get into a better shooting position, in lieu of chancing night-fight rolls. His speeders scream across the table, threatening to play with fire. And my troops.

Tyranid Turn 2

I advance. Chances are, I didn't do it enough, but we won't know that for a few turn, will we? I make sure his speeders go away; it helps that he can't make a 4+ save. The one on the left gets immobilized moving flat out, and the one on the right explodes. I can't do more than shake/stun his Rhinos; I engage them because I might actually STOP them as opposed to chance damaging the raiders, and then have everything arrive intact.

Turn out I'm taking a leak into the wind, other than killing the speeders.

Templar Turn 2

Big surprise: he drives forward, pops smoke. He fans out to get troops near objectives, and the Raiders position for launching fighters. I think of Land Raider Crusaders as short-ranged carriers with a nasty fighter screen; right now they're getting into range. His lascannons busy themselves with rolling 1's and 2's as often as possible.

Tyranid Turn 3

I somehow immobilize both Rhinos even through smoke. That's really it, other then the fact I can't make psychic rolls (and actually drop a wound off one of my Tervigons because of box cars). The tervigon on the right manages to crap out an amazing FIVE Termagants; I give in to a wild hare and throw them across the field to shoot and assault one of his scoring squads. As expected, I kill a few, but the Termagants fail morale and actually get away. It provides a moment of comedy, and it's about all I can think of doing with a whopping 4-5 in one brood.

Black Templar, Turn 3

His Crusader squads pop out of their beat-up Rhinos, and move towards objectives. Land Raiders advance and disgorge cutty death.

One crusader squad can't make terrain rolls worth a crap to get into warriors. Termagants go down in flames. Or, up in giblets (but no gravy). Big surprise; twenty WS4, S5 attack that re-roll hits and wounds kill 10 termagants really hard...

Tyranid Turn 4

Hello, back foot. Time to repulse that assault. Warriors and other fire converges to waste four terminators on my right flank, and the TH/SS terminator responds by...running away. The other squad holds fast, and I throw my carnifexes into it. Gotta sort those before they sort my army.

My opponent can't make 4+ cover saves, but CAN make 5+ invulnerable saves. One carnifex was softened up prior to getting into assault, and gets lightning-clawed down. Sad, isn't it? I don't get to deploy my Warriors (more importantly, I don't get to MOVE them) to finish off the TH/SS termie, but he is within six inches still.

Black Templar Turn 4

My opponent plays a sound game; he moves to lock down two forward objectives and put a Land Raider on the last one. Operational land raiders make me sad, but I at least have a Carnifex I can put into that one. Right? And I've got Tyrannofexe in position to shoot and assault them.

Tyranid Turn 5

Funny story: warrior squad versus Crusaders doesn't work out for the Crusaders. I beat up the Land Raiders, but don't kill them. Being turn five, I try to harm the squad on the right as well; this turns out predictably poor. Still, you can't always rely on getting turn six...

Black Templar Turn 5 (FINAL)

...because you won't always get one. He's got Land raiders contesting two objectives, and troops on the others. Game to Black Templar.

Thoughts

Overall, I probabably could have stood to move my guys up a bit more. I sometimes have issues with aggression (or lack thereof) and I think it showed here. Also, don't play games on six hours of sleep; it probably doesn't help.

Past that, twin land raiders is just a nasty build; I'm not 100% sure this is the tip-top BT build but it is plenty dangerous. I couldn't handle the raiders in time, and didn't get into position fast enough to challenge him.

Warriors and Primes and Guns

Honestly, I think there's something to be said for keeping the devourers on your guys. You can get productivity out of them without having to assault (and you can't always asssault). If you have them with a prime, that's a good number of shots at a decent BS.

Regarding talons, well, it's a bit like this...if you have a decent WS (5+) then you'll hit most of your enemies on a 3+. Since you re-roll ones, you re-roll half of your misses (since you miss on a 1 or 2). I mean, obviously double talons is sweet, but I'm a bit partial to the guns. Call it more of a tactical decision, since with poison you're going to do fine with wounding.

Carnifexes

Alright...for 320 points, not bad. I lose a rupture cannon (and some points on top of that) but gain a decent anti-tank, anti-infantry assault unit. Even so, I've got to be careful about what I put them into. TH/SS termies can turn them into hash and keep going. I have to slap termagants into hard-core, low-volume-of-attack units and gum up the works, or throw warriors at them.

If I see dreadnoughts (barring ones with farce weapons...) or vehicles, or lower-strength guys, then it's time to party.

All in all, whip/sword/poison warriors can tag just about everything that a carnifex can (if not better) other than dreads and vehicles. I guess in that sense, it's a decent compliment.

Wrapup

I should've pressed up; he was gonna get a turn three assault any way I looked at it and I probably should've gotten better board position. Past that, sometimes the dice just don't help you out with killing high-value targets.

Feedback/Thoughts?

Making Carnifexes Work 2: As A Support Element

First, I'll beg everyone's forgiveness; last week was a rough week, and this week has been a heap of training and more ramping up to insanity at work. My mind's not as much into the game as usual, mostly because making money is draining.

Sad, I know, but that's life, right? Gotta use the skills to pay the bills, first, and the excess goes into actually enjoying life.

That aside, here's what I was thinking of using to test carnifexes as a supporting element of the army. Anyone with hardcore assault units can shoot you to death; horde armies can wear them down, and even with aburd dice luck to his terrible luck, I still lost to guard.

So, how do we use carnifexes as a support element? Don't take many. 2 is probably plenty. They'll cover the heavy lifting. Dreadnoughts, land raiders, that kind of thing come in? Ok. Neat. Let's go trash that stuff with carnies. Hordes? Gotta bring something to take out more numerous enemies.

We'll also need actual guns, and then synapse and scoring troops. So, what does that leave me with?

HQ
Tyranid Prime [Lash Whip, Bone sword] 95
Elites
2 Hive Guard [100]
2 Hive Guard [100]
2 Hive Guard [100]
Troops
10 Termagant [50]
10 Termagant [50]
Tervigon (Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacks) [195]
Tervigon (Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacks) [195]
5 Tyranid Warriors (Whip/Sword, Toxin Sacks, Devourerers, 1 Venom Cannon) [265]
Heavy Support
Tyrannofex w/ Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines [265]
Tyrannofex w/ Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines [265]
2 Carnifexes [320]

Total: 2000/2000

All in all, I think it's a step up from the previous list. We've still got a good number of monstrous creatures with a half-dozen. Compared to the previous carnie-spam list, we dropped the Venomthropes and four carnies for Tyrannofexes and warriors.

So, now, we have guns (same number of hive guard, and now two rupture cannons to trash things at range), and we have lighter-weight, more numerous attacks from the warriors.

Thoughts?

Carnifex Spam Batrep

I decided to give the massed carnifex list a shot, as it had generated a heap of discussion. I ended up running an atypical scenario (from the Kalm Before the Waagh!, a heap of drama prevented me from being there but he'd made it) against an army that my oppenent was like 'well, maybe it'll do something interesting' though he had his reservations (which turned out to be correct).

So, at 2,000 points I had:
Tyranid Prime [Scything Talons, Devourer]
3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
3 Venomthrope
Tervigon [Toxin, Adrenal, Catalyst]
Tervigon [Toxin, Adrenal, Catalyst]
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
2 Carnifex
2 Carnifex
2 Carnifex

My Logic: 'I wonder what a Half-Dozen Carnifexes will do with Venomthrope and Hive Guard Support.'

Chaos Space Marines
Slaaneshi Lord w/ Daemon Weapon
Berserkers w/ Fist Chump
Plague Marines w/ Fist, Flamers, Rhino
Plague Marines w/ Plasma, Fist, Rhino
CSM w/ Chaos GLory, Fist, Melta, Rhino
CSM w/ Chaos GLory, Fist, Melta, Rhino
Noise Marines w/ Sonic weapons, power weapon chump, Rhino
Oblit x1
Oblit x1
Land Raider w/ Posession
[NB: he'd overcosted his Land Raider; he'd been looking at the Space Wolf book and forgot his didn't have PotMS, so he was short about a marine or two]

His Logic: 'I Wonder What A Chaos Rhino Rush Will Actually Do'

Scenario: The 'Urty Dozen
Primary: Get Your Most Expensive Unit Killed (Dead mercs collect no paycheck and are thus free...)
Secondary: Objectives [6 total]
Tertiary: Kill at least one enemy HQ
Fourthiary: Victory Points

Deployment: board divided into six equal chunks. Players dice off; the winner then drops 3d6 (re-rolling any duplicates) and gets the correspondingly-numbered chunks. I ended up with two on one short side, and one on the far corner. Then, I won the roll and forced him to deploy first and go first. Hey, he's got mobility on me out the yin-yang and it's not like I can stop more than two rhinos tops before he gets there.

Deployment

Red circles highlight the objective. Unsurprisingly, he deploys in the middle. I take my two adjoining segments and termagant-screen my force. I figure that he'll hit me, and then I'll have to weather the initial hit and push out to force him off objectives. Hive Guard on either flank mean I should be able to get at least one brood to draw a bead on anything, since my butt's against the 48 inche side. (actually not, since there's a BOOK CASE there...)

Here's another view of the deployment. My Tyrannofex conversions, my semi-converted Tyrants, and a couple of old mech-daemon conversions are my Carnifexes, and the mech-daemons are standing in as my 'KILL MEEEE!' objective, since two carnifexes are 320 points. I fail to seize the initiative, and this is fine.

Chaos Turn 1

Chaos advances and fans out. Noise Marines move up to grab a flank with an objective and a good view for pouring fire onto one of myo bjectives. His Land Raider drives up, spits out Berserkers, and proceeds to eat ten termagants. His powerfist champ and two others bite it on the way in thanks to the Venomthrope dangerous terrain checks. His plague marines move up and only rapid-fire ONE venomthrope down, and wound the other. That last Rhino is busting toards the back, to conga-line and grab two objectives.

Naturally, the oblits are in reserve.

Tyranid Turn 1

Ok, well, time to do something about that. I explode the horse that the Plague Marine Squad (with attached lord, the white fig) rode in on, and the Rhino that a CSM squad was in BEHIND his land raider. Thought you could hide, did you? Carnifexes move up to engage his plague marines, his berserkers, and his land raider. Tervigons spawn; one closer to the bottom of the picture runs dry. One at the top promptly craps out 10 Termagants to replace the ones that the berserkers ate.

Berserkers? Gruesome death. Land Raider? Explodes. Plague Marines? Lord insta-kills BOTH OF MY FREAKING CARNIFEXES WITH SIXES TO WOUND. I die a little on the inside. He celebrates.

Chaos Turn 2

Noise marines move up, fire on termagants. Plague Marines with a commanding view open up on carnifexes that ate the land raider. His marines that got out of the exploded rhino (well, the 8 that made it out...) also open fire on the carnies. The carnies do not appreciate this, and are hurt. One oblit falls off the table and dies horribly; the other blowtorches some termagants.

His Lord and Plague Marines get into the tervigon and termagants (due to poor placement on my part and a solid multi-assault). TERVIGON IS INSTA-GIBBED BY SLAANESHI LORD. Termagants die a deadly death.

So far, the Slaaneshi Lord has single-handedly killed 515 points of my army. He costs 135. I am a sad, sad freaking panda.

Tyranid Turn 2

Well, I've got to handle this. Two carnifexes are detailed to end the plague marines and the slaaneshi lord, along with a squad of termagants, who will be on strict orders to MAKE SURE THAT THE FREAKING SLAANESHI LORD DOES NOT GET INTO B2B WITH MY CARNIFEXES. I do NOT want to see more insta-gib sixes. Other carnifexes advance towards his CSM squad that just can't seem to move through cover away from two large, hungry, pointy things the size of building running at them with murderous intent.

The Tervigon craps out another 10-11 termagants.

Assault happens. At the end, I lost a beat-up carnifex and some termagants in exchange for the Slaaneshi lord, the oblit, and most of his plague marines. I am quite satisfied. This happens in part due to the fact the lord rolled a '1' for his daemon weapon. Whoops.

This actually defines his luck; he rolled either very hot or yahtzee'd on ones. Seriously. He yahtzee'd on ones like TWICE. Considering that he pretty much was looking at 3's to hit and 3's to wound (or sixes) it was pretty surprising.

He cries a little on the inside when the lord died. Sorry, that 135 points ONLY buys you one quarter of my army.

Holy freaking hell. I would've cried if that lord had run through more of my army. As it is, I luck out and pass the instinctive behavior on the hive guard, and the termagants just kinda lurked.

Chaos Turn 3

His advance is blunted. At this point he's got two objectives locked down solidly in the back, but his inability to roll difficult terrain is probably gonna cost him that Chaos Marine squad. His Noise Marines shell my Termagants (who go to ground, lest they fail a morale check from casualties and run off the board) but they weather it with aplomb. (Ok, not really; they just hid really well in a house. Same thing, right?)

Amusingly, I can make cover saves against meltaguns and plasma weapons, but bolters take wounds off my freaking carnifexes. I got cover because one hid behind a house. A HOUSE. Ok, more like INSIDE the house, then somehow walked out and left it intact. Go figure.

Speaking of the chaos backfield, you can see the conga line.

Tyranid Turn 3

Wall of Termagants advance; Tervigon craps out MORE. The Prime splits off from his hive guard buddie and wanders over to provide synapse while the Tervigon dumps Domination to make sure. (or maybe that was last turn? Not sure, but I did actually use that 18" synapse range).

I fire on his Noise Marines and nothing happens. My other hive guard are a couple inches short of hitting anything (other than the Chaos Marines, and I want to try to get to them with the carnifexes. I've also shot myself out of assault range more than once.)

Two Carnifexes + 8 Chaos Marines = Two Carnifexes. They had to get into terrain, but the powerfist didn't kill anyone. One 'fex only has a single wound left, though.

Chaos Turn 4

There's not a lot left to do now. He moves the Rhinos up in preparation to contest objectives, since the game lasts either 5 or 6 turns. Plague marines back up, rapid-fire the 'fexes, and actually drop one. Noise marines backpedal out of terrain and fire. My Tervigon finally runs dry this turn.

Endgame

I'll summarize, since A) I forgot a few pictures, and B) it was pretty much over. The carnifex on the flank managed to get into his Noise Marines (...and eat them). The other carnifex got into and through his plague marines, tagged a rhino, and then died in assault with his remaining squad.

End Result:

Primary: Chaos

Secondary: Tyranids

Third: Tyranids
Fourth: Tyranids

Survivors

Tyranids:

Prime

1 Venomthrope

1 Tervigon

1 Carnifex

40-50 Termagants

Chaos

7 CSM

Thoughts on the game and the lists

The Scenario

The scenario was admittedly atypical. It kept us maybe 14 inches apart, though it's possible I could've avoided the first turn assault anyway. As it was, it worked out for me, since I dropped about 500 points of his army on turn one.

Getting the most expensive unit killed is sometimes a bit odd, but the other objectives were reasonably normal. I mean, headhunting the HQ is usually a good idea; most of the time they add something to the list.

The Freaking Slaaneshi Lord

In a sense, this was dice luck. On the other hand, such lords are iffy against stuff you really wanna insta-gib (while you can wound tyranid warriors with their T4, they'll have whips and swords and shank you 'til you're dead before you can go, in all likelihood).

Still, with enough attacks, you can hope for those sixes. It was just NUTS to see instant death worth something. If we really wanted to talk about a chaos HQ for hunting MCs, though, I'd look to Kharn (...because, well, it's freakin' KHARN but he does need fours to wound...) or a Nurgle Lord with Daemon Weapon (they're like poison lightning claws against regular troops, and still the poison helps against T5+ enemies, so yeah...)

The Chaos List

Long story short: he was hella short on firepower. He just didn't have a good counter to monstrous creatures in general past 'hope the hidden powerfist works after you soften them up with meltaguns before the charge.'

The Dice

...wow. My opponent's dice luck was all over the freakin' place. Seriously, the Venomthropes just about paid for themselves in the number of guys that flubbed dangerous terrain checks. I think it was a powerfist zerker, two more zerkers, then at least one plague marine (With a flamer, no less..).

Plus, he got the '1' on the daemon weapon at the exact wrong time. On the other hand, he ALSO got the sixes at the exact right time. He also managed to immobilize a crucial contest-capable rhino on terrain.

I also managed to explode half the vehicles I killed, so yeah. I ALSO had a Tervigon produce for four straight turns, so I got a total of 5 extra broods, or about 25-30 termagants. Swathes of 'em died, though, but BFD. I got more (...usually.)

The Venomthropes

Ok, honestly, unless you can hide them out of LOS, most enemies ARE capable of dumping enough fire on six T4, 4+ save wounds in a turn or two to kill 'em all off. He almost did that in the very first turn, and the noise marines KO'ed another at some point.

Still, the defensive grenades and cover have their place in some builds. Venomthropes don't belong in every army, but if you're going MC heavy (...maybe, really does depend) or going for a swarm( and want to make sure you can get cover) then it might be worth a shot.

Note, though, that like the Tervigons, it forces you to stay close and pay attention to your formation. You want at least a few guys trailing back to the magical 6-inch bubble that the venomthropes have for giving you cover/defensive grenades/dangerous terrain.

The Carnifexes

Admittedly, Living Battering Ram has a place. It helps to go before powerfists, and if I could find 30 points without a major problem I would probably think about giving them Frag Spines. On the other hand, most armies with nasty assault troops can get the charge off, and it doesn't matter that much against shooty armies.

Honestly, the 'fexes didn't face any uber-threats on the table. Two of them can nail a semi-damaged squad with decent rolls (needing 4's to hit, they should be able to kill 5-6 guys a turn) and on the charge? You're talking 7-8, and getting up to ten is possible (unless you're charging plague marines).

Even with Run moves, these guys are freakin' slow. And, well, you NEED to run them. The other worry is getting ahead of your synapse support, since Feed/Rage can be used against you and you're not always gonna make that Ld7 check to avoid being a stupid mountain of hungry, fanged, muscle with talons as long as a sedan. (I feel like I should make jokes about why T-rex is angry with regards to the functionality of his arms; t-rex at least had hands...).

And, of course, he had no dedicated melee units. If the enemy can soften up the carnifexes (...which, admittedly, most lists can) then they can probably take 'em out in assault. Pure assaulty lists can probably hurt them too; stuff like thunder-shield termies hurt and even t-wolf cav can put the hurt on.

Carnies are reasonably durable, but (lack of) speed can kill. Tomorrow I go against IG, so we'll see ho that works out. Stay tuned for another batrep.

Hive Guard

...deprived him of his mobility, and kept the Rhinos from potentially denying my the objectives. Without them, he could've just kept moving them and tank-shocking termagants around. What are Termagants gonna do if they can't furious charge the thing, try to get behind 'em and do damage with with BS3, S4 guns?

Overall

Ok, end of the day, that was an interesting match. I don't think this validates carnifexes by itself, as they really didn't have to contend with any major threats. Even then, I still lost more than half of them. I probably would've kept one more alive had the slaaneshi lord not killed BOTH of them, but even with Kharn or omething ele in his place I would've probably lost at least one. Actually, Kharn + a powerfist champ still probably would've KO'ed both, but it just would've taken longer (unless I lucked out and KO'ed Kharn, but that depends on which Carnie got wounded and which one got into assault with Mr. Kharn.)

I'm playing against IG tomorrow. Should be interesting, since this player generally does bring a pretty nasty IG list. Failing that, it'll probably be double-crusader Black Templare with Furious Charge lightning claw terminators.

Either way, both of those will be a bit rougher on the 'fexes.

Comments/Thoughts/Rage? Due to Powerpoint Making Us All Stupid, I haven't had a lot of time lately to blog. (Staring at slides for 5-6 hours a day and then having to review them or brief them the other 2-3+ hours does sap your brains and will to look at a computer screen, lemme tell ya. For like two and a half weeks straight.)