Death Guard - First Impressions of Plague Companies

 

So, we have a pretty solid new codex - and unlike, say, most other books, we're just one chapter.  However, we have seven options for companies.  Each plague company offers us a unique warlord trait, a relic, and stratagem.

So, what do we want to do with these?  Note we already have some solid warlord traits and relics, so you may just be looking at stratagems.

First Company - The Harbingers

SHORT VERSION - The Harbingers are melee-oriented, with a stratagem for helping Pox Walkers and a so-so relic and warlord trait.

LONG VERSION

The meat here is The Wrathful Dead - for a CP, your poxwalkers re-roll hits.  Throw that on top of the Mutant Straint stratagem, and suddenly you're fishing for 6s to hit for mortal wounds with poxwalker mobs.

The Warlord trait is 'eh' at best - it's not bad if you're around multiple minimum-sized units since stuff in Contagion Range (other than vehicles) takes mortal wounds in the opponent's movement phase on 4+s.  You can luck out and drop d3 mortals.

Infected Remains is gimmicky at best - your relic-bearer drops it on an objective marker, which then has a contagion aura as long as the character lives.  Not saying this can't be useful, but we've got a ton of cool relics.

Second Company - The Inexorable

SHORT VERSION - This company's pretty utilitarian; the stratagem is solid for a melee army.  The warlord trait is neat if you're helping out plague marines, and the relic can actually help heal vehicles - which is kinda rare for this book.  (We're more about just not dying, rather than getting better.)

LONG VERSION

Ferric Miasma is 1CP for a flat -2 to charge - you REALLY get to laugh at stuff trying to charge you from deep strike; hitting a 9 isn't bad, but hitting 11s is...unlikely.  Anyone with charge buffs will need them, and anyone without them is in some shape.

The Warlord Trait is useful IF you tech into a quantity of low AP attacks - it's an aura of +1AP equal to your contagion range.  Terminators don't really care about it, but other stuff does.  It's build-specific, but don't keep The Inexorable for just plague marines.

The Leechspore Casket is...I dunno.  You want someone already killy to carry it, and they need to punch models to death in order to heal a vehicle for some wounds.  If you're going to support some front-line demon engines (anything other than your mortars, really) it's an option, but maybe not the first option.

Third Company - Mortarion's Anvil

SHORT VERSION - This has a hilarious durability warlord trait, a defensive strategem, and a hard-to-fight relic.

LONG VERSION

Gloaming Bloat is just sick - it turns off re-rolls to hit and wound in Contagion Range.  You really want to bring Gift of Plagues for a boost to that range.

Relaptic Assault is a neat stratagem because it's going to make folks be careful about positioning - if you've got multiple units next to each other, it's going to be very hard for them to just hit one in assault.

The Warp Insect Hive is good for full hit/wound re-rolls.  A Demon Prince with two claws and Virulent Fever would like this.  A LOT.

Fourth Company - The Wretched

SHORT VERSION - The stratagem and warlord trait aren't terrible utility, but the relic is 'meh' and other stuff has more straightforward utility.

LONG VERSION

You get a Requisition Stratagem - one psyker gets another power, and one free re-roll a turn.  You'll definitely get some economy out of that.  This might let you get away with one psyker.

The Warlord Trait is good for auto-wounds on sixes in contagion range - so it's a turn 2-3 melee buff unless you commit to Gift of Plagues (...which you should.)

Your relic buffs the Pestilential Fallout on a Malignant Plaguecaster.  These guys aren't super durable, and I'd really rather keep 'em away from the front - and real talk, we've got better relics.

Fifth Company - The Poxmongers

SHORT VERSION - Are you leaning into demon engines like the Blight Hauler or Defiler?  Look at these guys.  Otherwise, skip.

LONG VERSION

Your stratagem is all about letting that demon engine fire at point blank range with blast weapons, and a nice +1 to hit as a bonus.  The Defiler and Blight Hauler find this hilarious.

Your Warlord Trait is so-so at best, since it's a leadership debuff and a combat attrition debuff - small beefy units don't care about it, even if we do have a neat -4LD stratagem laying around.

The Relic leans into your demon engines - someone gets a 4++ instead of their 5++.

Sixth Company - The Ferrymen

SHORT VERSION - There's a bonkers warlord trait, a decent buff stratagem for your elites, and a decent relic for your scythe-wielding guys.

LONG VERSION

The Droning is one of the ugliest-looking warlord traits we have - 1/2 movement to enemies in your Contagion Range.  Gift of Contagion is a hard must here, and you need this on a mobile warlord to throw at the enemy - you may lose it (unless it's Mortarion) but you can potential hobble an enemy army for a turn, so there's that.

The stratagem is pretty reasonable - +6" to your FOETIED VIRION (aka - your elite buff guys) auras is a tool you can find a use for - IE, a 9" range for your "you can't fight 'til we're done here" off the Blightbringer is ugly.

The relic isn't quite as insane as some - it's a manreaper that lets you crank three swings on scything swings instead of two, but you also can't dump one of our plague upgrades on it.  Considering our other stuff, eh.  Not too worried, and we have other relics.

Seventh Company - Mortarion's Chosen Sons

SHORT VERSION - Do you like sprays?  Are you bringing lots of Death Shroud?  Then this is your company.

LONG VERSION

The stratagem is pretty specific, and very ugly - plague belchers, spewers, and plaguespurt gauntlets are damage 2.  A unit of five Death Shroud can crank out 6d6 shots (admittedly at S3, but -1T is a thing) and stuff's gonna notice.

The Warlord trait, Nurgle's Fruit, is pretty utilitarian - it turns cover off in Contagion Range.  Not bad, but we're also not the shootiest army - I feel like we can kinda skip this.

Vomitryx is a hilarious-sounding relic - it's a flat 7 shots at AP-3, 2 damage - cool, right?  There is literally only one problem - it replaces a plague sprayer, which means it goes on a Foul Blightspawn, which means it competes with Revolting Stench Vats.  What do you want more?  A really neat flamer, or a an aura of "you didn't charge, you don't fight first" in a slow army. If you're taking two of these guys, maybe this would be cool - but eh.

The Wrapup

Some of these companies lean into certain builds - the first helps your Poxmongers, the Seventh Company is tailor-made for Deathshroud terminators, and the Fifth is all about Demon Engines.  The fourth is...well, it's a plague company.  The remaining ones offer different types of utility, but don't necessarily scream for one type of unit over another.

The New Death Guard - And Rampant Speculation For Chaos Space Marines Changes

So, the Death Guard book hit the streets today. There are tons of folks who've already posted thoughts on it, and I'll get around to that. First off, though, I'm going to take a minute and speculate on what this might mean for the other chaos fellas. Remember, Death Guard may have a lot of special toys, but they've also got a bunch of units in common with regular Chaos Marines and other stuff. Some of these changes look pretty solid, and some others might be cause for concern. Also, some just plain confuse me.

The Good 

Demon Engines - I would expect them to go to WS/BS3+ across the board. The Lord Discordant may or may not keep his +1 to hit buff at this point; who knows. The Defiler - it got a better gun; flat 3 damage is something. 

 Helbrutes - Note that in an army full of '-1 damage' these guys have it too, but it's called 'Monstrous Resilience' which is pretty neutral. They get another buff in 'Frenzy' - unlike previous iterations where being wounded meant you killed your buddies, being wounded means that you get to re-roll wound rolls of 1. This combines neatly with the 1CP stratagem 'fire frenzy' which is good for +1 to hit and +1 to wound if you shoot everything at the same target. 

 Chaos Spawn - Their random attacks are a little more reliable; it's now 2d3 a model. The interesting thing is this - there's a stratagem, Grandfather's Influence, that grants them Disgustingly Resilient and T6. Makes me wonder if we're going to see similar god-specific stratagems in the new book. I think it's pretty neat. At 23pts a model, it's a reasonable distraction unit - even moreso if you can get some cool buffs out on them.

Miasmic Malignifier - Hear me out - the SM bunker of 'whatever' was so-so, and the Convergence of Dominion is weird to use.  This thing, though?  This thing is pretty solid, pretty cheap, and pretty usable.  The only potential problem is slapping it in a useful spot on a table.  

Foetid Virion - hey, you have lots of buff characters - and now you get 3 per Elite slot.  Rules like these help with army building, and it continues things we saw with Crypteks in the necron book.

The Bad 

Cultists - Hoo boy. Odds are that you have a pile of these guys laying around. They take a couple hits in the Death Guard book - you have to take BUBONIC ASTARTES units alongside these guys, so you can't just bring Demon Engines and cultists. (Not really a problem since this book's good, but worth noting.) Also, they lost Objective Secured. Really, what this does is mean that a big unit can't take a hit from a few guys and still hold an objective - it hurts, but cultists aren't known for sticking around long when bullets and blades start flying. 

 Lord Restrictions - it's not necessarily bad, but expect restrictions similar to marines and company with respect to HQs.  You get one LORD OF THE DEATH GUARD per detachment.  I mean, you were gonna be bringing psykers for our sweet, sweet powers anyway.  Regular Chaos Marines are bound to have solid variety in the the HQs.

Possessed - So, the downside is that they take 2 slots in a Land Raider, and don't fit in a Rhino.  I'd expect errata extending this to the Forge World transports as well.  So long as Warp Time remains a thing, I'm not sure if regular marines will worry as much.

The Ugly 

Plague Marine / Blight Lord Options - it seriously looks like some of the weapon options got dictated by the kits. I'm not sure what's up with this. I feel like someone, somewhere, was like "Oh, I bet it'll be easier if the weapon options are identical to the kit!" except having one of each combi-weapon on a blightlord squad is just weird - and there's not enough of eithr melee option to kit a full 5 out with each.  It's a little nonsensical.

  The Plague Marine squad is just kinda confusing, and is going to take a minute to sort through, especially if you want a melee squad.  There's a bunch of 1-per-5, so you could somehow end up with a 10-man squad that carried two plague cleavers, two flails, two paired plague knives, two meltaguns, a sigil of decay/boltgun, and a sarge with fist and daemonic plague knife.  (Good luck pulling casualties or rolling melee hits in a reasonable amount of time.)

Splitting Chaos Predator Datasheets - I don't see the relevance myself, but whatever.  I guess it matters if you somehow wanted to run 3 of each.

Overall

This seems like a net positive at first glance for Chaos Marines down the road - some of our stuff is bound to get tweaked, the only thing that really confuses me is the "ooh, maybe let's make options similar to what's in the box, except not always!"  Thank the gods that logic passed the Devastators by, because that would probably punt devs HARD.

Alpha Legion - Paint Recipe Part 01

Squad place-holder, ready to sit in the back.

 If you're like me - and prone to the occasional break from things like painting - it may pay to keep a log of how you actually paint your guys.  Or, if you want to make sure a project remains consistent - it pays to keep a log.  In the event anyone else wants to know one of the many ways to do an Alpha Legion paint job, here's what I essentially 'borrowed' (blood raven style) from the way Forge World does theirs.

The opening picture is a finished product with basing and transfers.  The green detailing on the bolters, melee weapons, and fabric serve as squad markings.  These guys are a minimal choice for a battalion or brigade - they exist to fill out a troops choice and provide fire support.

Recipe Part 1 - From Primer to Blue
This part of the entry is going to focus on the alpha legion metallic blue  We'll go from bare mini to "ready for the brush part" here.

Ingredients
Airbrush & associated place, gear to use it
Metallic silver primer
Tamiya Clear Blue
Tamiya Clear Green
MIX of Tamiya Clear Blue and Green (80/20 blue to green)
Flow improver

Step 01 - Prime

Kind of self-explanatory

 Public service announcement - metallic spray paint fumes will go straight to your head.  There's a reason it got used as cheap combat drugs in Mad Max: Fury Road.

Step 2 - Two Coats of The Blue Mix

Hey man, how old is that wash jug? Does it have to be so close?

 This is your real base coat.  You want to be thorough.  A touch of flow improver is your friend with the air brush.  I am not particularly worried about getting this on other parts of the mini that will be other colors.

Step 3 - Green From Below

What did I step in?

 Time for a little depth.  Make sure the first coat is dry and the airbrush got a good cleaning in between everything.  The green exists to help make stuff pop.  When you apply the green, it goes to the bottom bits of the mini.  Honestly, you just about hold the thing upside down and spray it up.

Step 4 - Blue from on high

I'm over the sound of the compressor

After cleaning up and letting the green dry, it's time for the blue.  This is basically the opposite - point the nozzle at the top of the mini - the blue comes straight down, hitting the upper part.  The blue and green serve to add some color and depth to the blue.

End Part 01
At this point, you can kiiiind of see the contrast in the blue.  And that's fine - but if you're seeing a mostly-blue blob after a lot of cleanup, that's normal.  Where this is going to ultimately pop is when the trim goes on.

Note that the trim is also kind of when some of the crying starts.  (Especially if you have new Chaos Marine kits, or want to run multiple Lords Discordant, because that's a small model with 3 square feet of trim.)

Terminators vs. Obliterators - The Actual Comparison

So, there has been a fair amount of math and analysis on both terminators and obliterators in other posts.  I've point out some of the individual pros and cons of those units in those posts, and how legion traits interact with them there.  This post will compare/contrast the units with each other in order to help you pick what you want for your list.

So What's the Difference?
The biggest difference between the two is the gun, followed by the footprint and the durability. The gun is the most obvious difference, and frankly the one that I suspect most people hone in on first.

Difference #1 - The Guns
Terminators should be rocking ten combi-plasma whereas the obliterators are going to pack three Assault 6 guns that have randomized strength, AP and damage.

The terminators are significantly more reliable than obliterators, no questions asked.  S8, AP-3, 2 damage is a lot easer to plan around than S6+d3, AP-d3, Damage 1-d3 - you're not saving CP for re-rolls to damage.  Sure, the oblits can do more damage if they end up with mini-lascannons, but the terminators don't worry about that.

However, there's one big thing the oblits have going for them gun-wise - terminators need to be in rapid-fire range in order to do the most damage.  Obliterators get all their shots from 24 inches out.

Terminators win on reliability and volume of shots - Obliterators win when it comes to range.

Difference #2 - The footprint
Obliterators are three guys in 50mm bases.  Terminators are ten guys on 40mm bases.

Note that of course you can string the terminators around if needs be - but they do take up a little more space in general. (My Chaos terminators are still soaking in simple green, so I used what I had.  Don't judge too much.)

Difference #3 - Durability (on paper)

Both units have 2+ armor saves and 5+ invulnerable saves.  Terminators are a bunch of T4 guys with two wounds, whereas Obliterators are a trio of T5 guys with 4 wounds.  A full ten-man terminator squad has 20 wounds, whereas the obliterators have 12 wounds.

Bonus Difference - Melee

Let's be clear, you're not bringing these guys for melee.  In the terminator article, I'm recommending 8x chain axes and two guys with chainfists.  In the first round of combat, that's two dozen swings at S5, AP-1 and then another seven at S8, AP-4, 2 damage swings.  Obliterators are going to throw a dozen S6, AP-1, damage 1d3 swings out.

The Sum of the Differences

Remember, the point of both of these units is to drop in and do as much damage as possible.  Terminators need to drop in within 12", whereas obliterators can hang back 24" away.  

Damage and buffs

Both units can really use the buffs.  Terminators are more reliable in their damage output, but really, REALLY want to avoid rolling 1s - 1s blow up guys.  Obliterators want to hit as well, but aren't in the habit of spontaneously killing themselves.  Note also that terminators that kill themselves on the drop don't produce more shots when you use Endless Cacophony, and that's two less wounds that the enemy has to chew through.

Screens?

Terminators absolutely NEED to have screens shot out of the way -  if there's a unit that's four inches between them and their target, they're going to be outside of rapid-fire range.

Pictured - sad terminator stand-ins, a lucky knight, and me missing a tabletop setup

It doesn't take a lot to screen out targets from 12" - also beware of any units that have an innate "thou shalt not arrive from reserves within 12" from me" rule.  Terminators ALL need to arrive within 12" of the target - so  that footprint starts to matter. 

Screening someone with a 24" range is an altogether different beast.  You need a unit like Primaris Infiltrators (with their 'no reserves within 12 inches' rule) a foot away from your target in order to screen out a 24" range.  Or you just need to not be seen.

Reprisal and Durability

Terminators are dropping in rapid-fire range.  They probably just smoked something large and impressive, if not two somethings.  What happens next?  If the answer is anything other than "terminators are dying and/or getting tied up in assault" you've probably won already.

Your opponent can't let them get a second turn of productivity.  They're absolutely in Smite range, and naturally they're in rapid-fire range.  Your terminators will absolutely draw fire, but you knew that already - they will make the enemy predictable.  You're looking at most small arms wounding you on a 4+, and any AP is liable to matter.  You aren't slouches in melee, but melee specialists probably have the AP and damage to get through your 2+ armor (assuming they're around).

On the flip side, Obliterators are more likely to get a second turn of shooting.  They are less likely to be in rapid-fire range one turn later, and they may have had the luxury of deploying into cover as well.  T5 means that small-arms fire is going to wound them on a 5+, and most anti-tank weapons are going to wound them on a 3+.  If you have other beefy units in your army, then the enemy has to choose between the obliterators and other stuff.

Conclusion (at long last, after multiple posts)

Terminators win for reliable damage - Obliterators edge them out when it comes to durability and the part where they won't kill themselves on 1's.  Terminators are easier to screen, but absolutely command that your opponent play around those screens and subsequently murdering your terminators.

If reliability matters more to you, I'd build around screen removal and terminators - that being said, Obliterators are a reasonable choice in their own right, and may be more troublesome in a longer fight.

Terminators vs. Obliterators - Part 2 - Obliterator Anaylsis

First, let's take a moment and be grateful that Obliterators got a resculpt.  I took a look at Terminators earlier, and decided this was going to be two posts because of the amount of math.

Obliterators, the short version - your gun is random (but not as bad as you think) - but a 24" gun is hard to hide from when it comes out of deep strike, and hard to retaliate against.

The Assumptions

I'm keeping my assumptions from last time.  They are -

1) Take the Mark of Slaanesh so we can shoot twice via Endless Cacophany

2) Assume Prescience (or some other to-hit buff; Obliterators don't blow themselves up with plasma so avoiding a '1' isn't as big a deal - but you'd be silly not to bring a buff)

3) Assume we have the CP for Veterans of the Long War because +1 to wound is great

4) Legion Trait - I'm going with Alpha Legion because I run that, but I'll discuss other legion traits as well.

Obliterators Part 1 - The Gun, at a glance

In a way, this is simpler than Terminators because there's only one gun.  

Fleshmetal Guns - Assault 6, S6+d3, AP -d3, Damage D3 at 24 inches.

The special rule that's going to make us all hate math in a minute is Fleshmetal guns - you drop a D3 when firing to figure out your final strength your AP, and your damage.

This means you could have S7, AP-1 shots that do one damage, OR you could get S9, AP-3, 3 damage shots, or anywhere in between.

It also means you're going to hold onto a CP to potentially re-roll one of these D3, depending on the target you're after.

On the bright side, a 24 inch range means it's much harder to screen targets - a 9" buffer zone is fine.  If you want to screen out a 24" range shot, you may be looking at specialists with a "no deployment within 12 inches rule" or multiple screens and/or breaking line of sight.  You also have the luxury of dropping in outside of easy charge range.  If someone does charge you, each Obliterator has three S6, AP-1, 1d3 damage swings - so you CAN punch something to death, but it's a mop-up operation instead of something to rely on.

A full unit of 3 Obliterators is 385 points - which is pretty close to terminators in the previous example.

Obliterators Part 2 - On Randomness

So here's where it gets interesting - the guns are random as all get-out.  Strength is 7-9, AP is -1 to -3, and damage is 1-3; you have no idea what you're getting until it happens.  I absolutely advocate shooting your Obliterators first so you can keep a command point available to re-roll any of the D3 - but note that you roll the dice one after the other, so you pick strength, AP, and then damage.  

Remember that on average, you'll get a '2' - so only re-roll for the max value if it really matters, because you can always drop to a '1' instead.

The D3 you're going to re-roll is going to depend on your target.  I would worry about strength and damage most of all; the AP can be frustrating but you need to wound your targets, and the multi-wound fellows (IE - Primaris Marines, for example) really really want you to roll a '2' on damage - when you need multi-wound infantry dead, doing 1 damage a wound just won't cut it unless the unit has already taken a beating.

Re-rolling strength depends on your target's toughness - so it matters on T4 (S8 is your break point), T7 and T8.  You'll always wound T3 on a 2+, and you'll always wound T6 on a 3+ before Veterans of the Long War (VoTLW).  In a pinch, VotLW can overcome this if you're firing against multi-wound infantry.

Re-rolling AP matters if you already got the strength you want, and you don't care about damage.

Re-rolling damage really depends on the target.  It doesn't matter if you're chewing up high-value single-wound targets, but once you get to heavy infantry and vehicles you REALLY want to make sure you're doing at least two damage.

My gut says that if anyone skips over Obliterators at this point, it's because doing the math hurts.

Obliterators Part 3 - The Math

The math is where things get real fun, and we break out the spreadsheets.  Assuming prescience goes off, we get 15 hits.  That's the last of the easy assumptions.

In order to actually provide something consumable and usable, I'm going to do math for the final outcomes - IE, what value do you need to wound a target, and what's the target's final save.  We can do to-wound math easily, and once we know the final save (be it an invulnerable save, or the save after AP, cover, etc.) we know the number of wounds that went through.  And if it's a single big target, we can then figure out the damage depending on our damage roll.

Obliterators when wounding on 2+

This category includes T3 infantry, OR T4 infantry with S8+, or Veterans of the Long War when you'd normally wound on a 3+

I'd say your biggest pie-in-the-sky number here is the 5+ save vs. wounding on a 2+ - that's your golden scenario vs. T8 superheavy that can pick up an invulnerable save.  

A more reasonable benchmark is the 2-damage output vs. a 4+ save - on average you should still clean out two-wound primaris marines, and VotLW means you should be able to delete dreadnoughts, etc.

Obliterators when wounding on a 3+

This bin includes T4 infantry when you roll S7, T5-6 targets all the time, T7 targets when you're S8 and T8 targets when you're S9.

Assuming you can swing average AP and damage rolls with this, you can still put some solid damage (average 13.3) on something like a Knight, and still probably take out a tank.

Assuming you get two damage and so-so AP, even S7 means you can still probably nuke most or all of a two-wound T4 infantry squad unless they're in hard cover.

Obliterators wounding a on 4+

This category is slimmer - it's T7, 8, and 9 targets when you roll strength equal to their toughness.

Frankly, this table is a little disappointing - you need good AP to do decent damage to heavy targets.  

age

Obliterators wounding on 5+

You should have used VotLW, or re-rolled strength if you have to hit a target that you wound on a 5+.  You get 3 wounds off that, which isn't going to do a blessed thing.

What Do These Numbers Mean?

Ok, let's be real - that's a large wall of math and text to get through.  

Obliterator Perks

-24" range on the gun means you can stay out of counter-charge range, if applicable, to do your damage.

-24" gun range means that the only safe place is out of line of sight

-Obliterators are durable - T5, four wounds, and a 2+/5++ mean that they can soak a LOT of bullets.

-Unlike terminators, you don't run the risk of blowing yourself up.

-From a tabletop perspective, you can actually batch roll faster because a '1' doesn't kill your model.

-Randomness of the gun means you might kick out a half-dozen S9 AP-3 three-damage shots per guy, which is HILARIOUSLY nasty

-You don't need a huge footprint to drop in on with three models, even if you do have heftier bases.

Obliterator Drawbacks

-Randomness on the gun is the major flaw here, and you have to think about whether or not it matters.  Against line infantry, it's not a big deal - but you're kind of wasting yourself if you do that. 

-The AP of the gun is (to me) the biggest drawback - low AP vs. hard targets (most vehicles have a 3+ save) can hamper you, and it's the roll you're least likely to end up wanting to influence.

-The strength of the gun may matter, depending on the target.

-The damage is where it can get you - rolling a '1' for damage against heavy duty targets is just wildly disappointing.

A Note on Legion Traits

Alpha Legion - your 24" range lets you drop in far enough away to benefit from the -1 to hit.  If someone does charge you, you can drop 1CP for Feigned Retreat, walk away, and shoot again.  You probably have the range to use Conceal as well, which means no one is shooting these guys unless they're the closest target.

Black Legion - the trait is irrelevant.  You have a couple of stratagems to get re-rolls without nearby support, such as Let the Galaxy Burn - or Tip of the Spear if you ARE somehow the closest to the enemy.

World Eaters - you lose out on Prescience and Endless Cacophony.  Skip unless you're die hard pure World Eaters.

Word Bearers - you don't really care about the trait.  Malevolent Covenant can let you auto-pass the psychic test  for Prescience and won't let someone use Deny the Witch on it.

Night Lords - you definitely aren't close enough to use the trait yourself.  You can get -1 to hit vs. enemy shooting for 1CP via In Midnight Clad.  Leadership 8 may make you a candidate for Prey on the Weak - getting +1 to hit is never bad.

Iron Warriors - you're (potentially) light on AP, so ignoring cover is helpful if you're going after infantry or the odd vehicle that can get cover.  The Tank Hunter stratagem is good for rerolls vs vehicles.

Emperor's Children - Your legion trait doesn't really do anything.  I suppose you could use Combat Elixirs to go up to T6, but that seems excessive.

Renegades - There really isn't a huge perk for the initial volley here.

In Closing

The Obliterator gun is hilariously (and obnoxiously) random - however, it's still capable of dishing out some solid pain.  The benefit is that the 24" range means that it's difficult to hide from unless you're out of line of sight, and it's on a pretty durable platform.

Terminators vs. Obliterators - Part 1 - Terminator Analysis

Few things are more fun than dropping onto the table out of reserves and shooting - especially because a gun's range is a lot more predictable than a charge roll.  Chaos Space Marines have a couple of nasty shooting options with built-in deep-strike capability - Terminators and Obliterators.  The problem is that you're probably only going to have room for one of these.  So, of course, the follow-on question is 'which one?'  Given the versatility of terminator weapon loadouts, and the random nature of fleshmetal weapons, it's not the easiest question to answer.

UPDATE - had a buddy remind me of the stratagem 'honor the prince' - Emperor's Children terminators become a sub-species of "probably get stuck in after shooting" which is more fun.

Given the amount of math and space involved, I'm going to break this into two posts - the Obliterators are here.

Terminators, The Short Version - Combi-plasma and cheap melee is your most reliable loadout.  Save CP for Veterans of the Long War and Endless Cacophony, and you can theoretically delete a Knight or other superheavy in a turn, and also guarantee that you're going to see most of the other army pour into your terminators.

Also, sorry World Eaters - you lose out on a couple of crucial pieces of this and just aren't going to be as effective, but you got Red Butchers, so lean into that instead.

Baseline Assumptions
No unit performs in a vacuum.  You're going to be hitting the field on turn two with some high-powered guns - so you're going to bring support.  By and large these units want the same thing, so we'll assume that they have it. What is 'it', you ask?

 1) Assume we give them Mark of Slaanesh so we can use the Endless Cacophony stratagem and shoot twice.

2) Assume we have an accuracy buff in there - either Prescience for +1 to hit, a nearby Chaos Lord to re-roll 1s, or possibly both - maybe you got a Demon Prince into position.  I kind of like the Lord/Prince aura because the only way to turn it off is to kill the guy, whereas psychic powers can fail or be denied.

3) Assume we are willing to drop Veterans of the Long War if we need the +1 to wound.

4) Legion Trait - I'm using the Alpha Legion trait because, y'know, I'm Alpha Legion - so we force a -1 to hit penalty against shooting if you're more than 12" away.  I'll discuss other Legion Traits in an addendum.

Terminators Part 1 - Loadout
I lean towards plasma guns and chain axes on terminators, with a chainfist or two in a larger unit.  For 390 points you can get a 10-man unit with combi-plasma, two chainfists, and 8 chain axes.

Why plasma guns?  You have access to the following guns for terminators -
Combi-bolter - fine for bargain-bin distraction terminators (26pts for combi-bolter/chainaxe - not bad) but it's a totally different roll.

Combi-flamer - you're deep-striking out of range.  Pass.

Heavy Flamer - see above, and you get 1 per 5 terminators.

Reaper autocannon - great range and volume of fire - four shots at S7, AP-1, 1 damage - but you get one per five guys, and you take a -1 to hit when you land.  Skip.

Combi-melta - here's our contender.  S8, AP-4, d6 damage?  That's pain.  Note that you get one shot at 12", though - you better hope you hit - you are vulnerable to screening (especially against units like Primaris Infiltrators and their 12" denial bubble), and odds are that you won't be able to utilize the 'shoot twice' stratagem with the melta profile unless you went after some HUGE target and/or had choice positioning.

Note also that as long as you have an accuracy buff, you're really competing with the plasma gun's overcharge mode - an extra AP at this point is mostly academic.  AP-3 or -4 are either up against an invulnerable save, a 5+ armor save max (outside of cover special rules), or you're going clean through it.  When it comes to damage, 2 damage and volume of fire wins against basically all infantry compared to melta shots, but the meltaguns do have the potential to out-damage plasma guns - they'd need a 5+ damage roll to beat both shots in rapid-fire range, and outside of 12" they're just sad.

Combi-plasma - Here's our money-maker, thanks to its range and versatility.  You get S7, AP -3, 1 damage, OR you super-charge for S8, AP-3, 2 damage.  You have a 24-inch rapid-fire gun, so in a perfect world you drop at 12" and unload, supercharging if necessary.

Note also that the 24" range means that you can still contribute if someone does still have deep-strike denial in play, OR if you nuke your first target and still want to abuse Endless Cacophony, you have options.

Why chain axes?
Really it's easy - let's keep it cheap - the chain axe / combi-plasma combo runs you 35 points a guy.  You're not here for melee, but you're probably going to end up in it.  Giving everyone power weapons is at least another 30 points or so - and understand that after the first round of shooting, no one wants to let these guys do it again.

I do recommend a chainfist on the champion (go ahead and abuse his 3 attack profile) and maybe one more in a max unit, just in case you have to punch something big to death.

Terminators Part 2 - The Damage
So, we have our ten terminators with combi-plasma.  Let's assume we drop in rapid-fire range, and get Prescience off.  That's twenty shots, and with a 2+ to hit we're going to land 16.66 shots.  Damage wise we should consider stuff with and without invulnerable saves.

Vs. T3 infantry OR T4 infantry with overcharge - Veterans of the Long War (VoTLW) is irrelevant
Wound on 2+  - 13.88 wounds
Saves vs AP-3
4+ or worse in the open - 13.88 wounds go through it
3+ in the open - 11.5 wounds go through
3+ in cover OR 2+ in the open  OR 5++ - 9.2 wounds go through
2+ in cover OR 4++ - 6.9 wounds go through
Vs. 3++ saves - 4.6 go through

The above math applies for T5-7 targets as well, assuming you use VotLW to get down to a 2+ to wound again - and it's very much worth it.

Next, let's look at the hardest targets - T8.  You are ABSOLUTELY using VoTLW so you can wound on a 3+ here with your shots.  Anything else is just a waste.

Wound on 3+ - 11.11 wounds
4+ or worse in the open - 11.11 wounds, 22.22 damage
3+ save in the open - 9.25 wounds, 18.5 damage
3+ save in cover OR 2+ in open OR 5++ - 7.4 wounds, 14.8 damage
2+ save in cover OR 4++ - 5.55 wounds, 11 damage
3++ save - 3.7 wounds, 7.4 damage

Just double that for average output w/ Endless Cacophony.  The good news is that you can do a serious number on large targets - a good deep strike, Prescience and 3CP will probably kill you a knight.

Terminator Perks -
-Plasma is pretty nasty.
-Plasma is pretty reliable, and S8 hits important break-points versus heavy targets.
-You do have the ability to split up fire in a fairly granular matter if needs be and you have the appetite for math.
-You can focus a LOT of buffs on one unit fairly easily.

Terminator Drawbacks - 
-You HAVE to drop within 12" to get the most out of your guns.
-You probably blew up 300+ points of the enemy army and you're like 12" from it - life's about to get rough.
-You have a pretty reasonable footprint - you really want guns on the ground turn one to clear a screen.
-If you don't get a to-hit buff or a way to re-roll ones, you're asking to blow up terminators.

A Note on Legion Traits
Alpha Legion - you aren't necessarily going to benefit from the legion trait based on your 12" range, but if you get charged and LIVE, you have the stratagem Feigned Retreat to fall back and shoot for 1CP.  Expect anyone who knows about this to make an effort to severely weaken you and tie you up in melee, if not kill you.

Black Legion - the trait is irrelevant. You can get some re-rolls, though, via stratagems - Let the Galaxy Burn is 1CP to re-roll 1s.  Tip of the Spear is 1CP to re-roll hit rolls for a Black Legion unit as long as it's the closest the enemy, which you probably are.

World Eaters - Skip.  You lose out on Endless Cacophony because you're stuck being marked as Khorne, and you lose Prescience because you hate psykers.  If you want terminators, run Red Butchers as S5 base melee terminators.

Word Bearers - Legion Trait is largely irrelevant to the terminators.  Of note is the stratagem Malevolent Covenant, which means you auto-pass a psychic test (Prescience, anyone?) for 1CP and a mortal wound on the psyker.  It can't be subject to Deny the Witch, either.

Night Lords - Legion trait is again irrelevant.  The stratagem In Midnight Clad is 1CP for -1 to hit vs. shooting, which can actually help.  Prey on the Weak is 1CP for +1 to hit IF your Terminator's Leadership 9 is higher than the target's - this can free up VotLW for someone else, potentially.

Iron Warriors - Ignoring cover is situational as a legion trait, but worth remembering if you're hunting heavy infantry in cover.  You do have some stratagems worth remembering - Iron Within, Iron Without is a cheap 'ignore wounds on 6+' and Dour Duty reduces the AP of enemy melee attacks, which may help you live through the drop.  Tank Hunters is about your only real damage buff, but gives you a re-roll to wounds vs. vehicles.

Emperor's Children - your legion trait is more about punching than shooting.  However, for 2CP you could use Combat Elixirs to make your terminators T5, which might be funny.  For you, anyway.  EDIT - perhaps of more importance is the stratagem 'Honor the Prince' - for one CP, one dice is a 6.  For your charge.  Can you get one 3+ on 2d6?  If so, then for one CP, you're in melee, kids!

Renegades - the Scourged get overwatch on 5+, which may help.  Otherwise, nothing really jumps out.

In Closing
The combi-plasma alpha strike is pretty sick - save it for hard targets, and make sure you clear a drop zone 12" away from the enemy to abuse it.  Save CP for Veterans of the Long War and Endless Cacophony.  Your legion may or may not offer much extra, but as long as you can get accuracy buffs and clear out ~500pts of your list for the terminators and an HQ, you're good.

Chaos Space Marines Codex - First Impressions - Alpha Legion

I had a Khorne Daemonkin list back in 7th - so I've a heap of old Chaos stuff I haven't really trotted out in 8th edition.  I have been a fan of the Alpha Legion's fluff from the Horus Heresy books, and thought that the Warlord trait of 'I AM ALPHARIUS' is hilariously in-character and troll-tastic.

So, I trotted out a list that I thought would fit with some of the KDK stuff I had, and try some new stuff in 8th.  My buddy and I were both trying out the new books, so we agreed to a 1500pt list.

Hydra Dominatus! Battalion
Demon Prince (warp bolter, 2x talons)
Demon Prince (wings, sword, talons)
Hellbrute (twin-las, power scourge)
Hellbrute (twin las, fist, combi-bolter)
11 Cultists (heavy stubber)
10 Cultists (heavy stubber)
5 Marines (missile launcher)
Defiler (reaper cannon, scourge, combi-flamer)
4 Bikers (2x meltaguns)
4 Bikers (2x meltaguns)
Heldrake (claws, bale flamer)

Black Templar
Grimaldus
Emperor's Champion
5 Assault Terminators (Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield)
5 Assault Terminators (Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield)
15-man Crusader Blob (fist, flamer)
5-man Crusader Squad (meltagun, multi-melta)
10 man Crusader Squad (meltagun, multi-melta)
Land Raider Crusader

The Battle, In Short
Due to good dice on my part, the Land Raider Crusader got wrecked turn one, between dreads and a biker squad.  The large Crusader Blob ended up dead in assault after that, and Grimaldus ended up staring down a bike squad and a Daemon Prince.

So, he promptly called for backup.  TH/SS guys deep-struck in on turn two, and then promptly failed their charges.  From there, his TH/SS guys wandered towards my DZ, trying to claim objectives and crushing the 5 guys with a missile launcher.  Cultists absorbed the charge, broke off, and he made a BUNCH of saves, even with  Death Hex stripping his saves.  Ultimately, my fast forces down-range managed to get linebreaker, and I drew some stupid-good objectives while he got a little hosed.

Highlights include -
-winged demon prince making an inordinate number of 5+ saves vs. the Emperor's Champion
-bikers are great for shooting, but not so much for assault
-land raider crusaders put out a stupid amount of dakka, but we already knew that

Lessons Learned
1) The Emperor's Champion is a Blender
He gets bonuses against characters AND monsters.  Characters that are monsters really, really need to stay the hell away from this guy.  S7 with re-rolling hits and wounds means if you get charged, you're going to die unless you're really good at making invulnerable saves. Like, really good.

2) Demon Prince Weapons
Skip the sword.  If you're bringing melee support in general, you want twin talons for the seven attacks.  Hitting on 2+ and wounding on a 2+ or 3+ with a -2AP for 2 damage is useful, and the volume of attacks helps.  I'm not sure about the axe, but I'm pretty sure I'm out on the sword.  Ditching two attacks for -3AP and 3 damage on your strikes seems iffy unless you're going after vehicles or monsters, and the axe's better strength, AP, and damage (even if it 'only' hits on a 3+) seems like a better call.

3) Assault Terminator weapons
These guys need help with accuracy and quantity of attacks - they will absolutely murder hefty targets, but struggle with numbers.  A Chaplain is always a good idea, because re-rolls on those 4+ thunder hammers is huge.  Additionally, I think giving the sarge Lightning Claws is a decent move - sarge will have a total of four attacks with re-rolling wounds.  It will help a bit if you end up running into hordes.

4) Alpha Legion - Army Composition
So, -1 to hit outside of 12" is hilarious.  Note also that it only works on bikes, infantry, and hellbrutes.  Demon Princes may not get mileage out of it, but as characters you should be able to position them so shooting isn't as big a deal.

So it brings up the question of "What do I bring outside of those?"  Because anything you bring that doesn't get the -1 to hit bonus is going to draw the long-range fire.  If you bring one thing, it gets all of it.  If you bring two, there's a split.  That's why I went with a Heldrake and a Defiler.

That's also why I effectively had two modules - a speedy one and a backfield one.  Cultists bubble-wrap the dreads, Defiler, and daemon prince while the bikes, winged prince, and heldrake push up.

Since I'm alpha legion, the winged prince starts out as warlord, and since I Am Alpharius applies, I can risk him without worrying about him getting ragged.  The other one serves as counterassault and re-roll buffs.

Batrep - Black Templars vs. Chaos Undecided

My comrade and I opted to go up to 2,000 points.  We knocked out the game prior to the release of the Codex: Space Marines, though agreed to use Black Templar Chapter Tactics.  Both of us realized those are kinda sick for deep-striking assault troops*, since 9 on a 2d6 with a re-roll is about a 50/50 shot.

Chaos Undecided

Battalion Detachment

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster

Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut - Warlord

Hellbrute w/ Reaper Autocannon, Flail

15 Poxwalkers

15 Poxwalkers

12 Cultists w/ Heavy Stubber

12 Cultists w/ Heavy Stubber

Foetid Bloat Drone

Foetid Bloat Drone

10 Hounds of Khorne

Maulerfiend w/ Lasher Tendrils

Superheavy Detachment

Traitor Knight w/ chainsword, thermal cannon, stubber, icarus cannon

Black Templar Battalion Detachment

Chaplain Grimaldus - Warlord

Emperor's Champion

5 Assault Terminators

6 Terminators w/ Assault Cannon

Sternguard squad

Cenobite Servitors

Crusader Squad - 5 men w/ plasma gun, plasma cannon

-Razorback w/ Twin Lascannon

Crusader Squad in a pod (9 guys, meltagun, fist, sword)

Crusader Squad in a pod (9 guys, meltagun, fist, sword)

The Scenario - Secure And Control (capture the flag)

Deployment - Search and Destroy (table quarters)

My Plan

So, I look at the army lists and realize I'm not going to first.  Second, I'm going to have a heap of deep-striking units to deal with.  Well, this is why I bring pox walkers and stuff - I'm going to need them to take up lots of space so I can try to dictate how he deep-strikes.  I know there's melta in his deep-striking squads, so I ensure that my big stuff (the greater demon and the knight) will be out of range on the first turn.  My hounds and herald go into the ruins close to the middle, while cultists and the Hellbrute hold my objective.  The hellbrute is placed so the Razorback can't see it, AND it denies my opponent an easy deep-striking zone, because if he can deep-strike there and land more than one unit I think I lose.

Deployment - Chaos Castles Up

 His objective is in the building in his table quarter - not that you can see it, but there's a five-man crusader squad with cenobites sitting on that objective.  His las-back is in ruins, and his sternguard are at the middle line.

BT turn 1 assault

 He opts to bring in just one squad on turn one - terminators in the middle, which promptly dig into my bubble wrap.  His las-back knocks some wounds off my Knight.

Chaos Turn 01 - Counter-Assault and Desultory Gunfire

 ...so naturally, I'm going to go handle the problem.  His other stuff will come in when it comes in; I just need to start dealing with it now.  My Bloat Drones start pushing up to try to deny more deep-striking space.

Khorne Dogs vs Sternguard

 The Bloodthirster, Herald, Maulerfiend and Hounds burst out of cover and into his guys.  The Herald gets roughed up, and the Bloodthirster kills enough stuff to keep my Maulerfiend from attacking.

Templar Turn 2 - In Which More Terminators Arrive

 So his assault terminators arrive, and Grimaldus and Friends (TM) arrive as well.  Note that those Terminators are standing where a Bloat Drone used to be.

Grimaldus Charges in to Buff His Comrades - 2CP Later He's Dead

 He charges Grimaldus in - I spend CP to ensure that the Bloodthirster gets to swing.  As this happens before the Bloat Throne gets used like a pinata, this gets me both First Blood and Slay The Warlord, which is crucial.

Chaos Turn 02

 Alright, it's a furball now!

Knight vs. Terminators + terrible rolls

 The Knight decides that Terminators won't be that bad.  Turns out the knight can't roll dice for spit.

PLAY! PLAY!...and the combat goes on

 This combat is going to go on for quite some time....

Bloodthirster remains happy

 Bloodthirster controls the middle, poxwalkers work to slowly grind away at marines and terminators.

Turn 03 - Emperor's Champion Arrives

 His champion drops - and his terminators in the middle drop my Bloodthirster.  The Heralds has gone back into cover with the cultists, since he's sitting on about 3 wounds, and I want to deny him the VP.

Knight is SAD

 My opponent makes an inordinate number of saves, and the knight loses a chunk of wounds.

Middle Battle continues, minus Bloodthirster and friends

 The middle is one hell of a furball.

Chaos Turn 3 - Knight disengages, Puppy charges, Bloat Drones Pushes

 The Maulerfiend, having failed a charge earlier, decides to go handle the drop pod - it also eyes the razorback meaningfully.

Still at it in the middle

 Man that's a lot of zombies.  Some of them used to be space marines.

Templar Turn 04

 I kill his drop pod on his turn.  The Emperor's Champion heads off in search of cultists/herald, and his Crusader buddies head towards the middle.

2 wounds left - BUT ALIVE!

 The knight finally finishes combat, heavily damaged but technically alive.  It did about 21 wounds to that last guy.

Chaos Turn 4

 The Puppy slaps the razroback a little, and melee continues.  My bloat drone has, by this point, traded itself for the Crusader squad.  It got in, fired, and then ate an overcharged plasma volley that cost the plasma gunner his life before the fistfight started.  The plasma cannoneer smashes the drone, then dies in the explosion.  It's the stuff of legends, except I doubt the Cenobite servitors would actually tell the story.

BT Turn 05

 At this point it's getting close to winding down - time isn't on my side.  The combat in the middle continues, but the Crusader squad does a lot better at killing zombies than terminators due to volume vs. quality of attacks.

Wrapping up

I just need to hold one objective - at this point, the Knight is (somehow) still alive, and the Maulerfiend is in position to grab his objective, so even if I end up having to handle troops and possibly lose mine, I've got another one.

Emperor's Champion vs. Cultists

 The cultists actually thought they could beat the Emperor's Champion.  They DID knock off two wounds in shooting though.  And force a number of saves.

Endgame

 You don't see the Maulerfiend in this picture because it's sitting on his objective.  At this point, the survivors are -
CHAOS
12 Cultists
Hellbrute
Knight (2 wounds remaining)

BLACK TEMPLAR
Crusader Squad
Couple of Sternguard

Razorbacks - not so hot in melee

Maulerfriend on BT objective

Closing Thoughts
1) Bubble Wrap is your friend
Those two poxwalker squads were crazy useful - in large part because they managed to take up space.  Same goes for the cultists squads, to an extent - they're cheap, the fulfill my troops requirements, and can hold objectives in the backfield.

2) Black Templar Chapter Tactics
Deep striking assaulty troops are going to be money for these guys.  Having a 50/50 shot at making the charge off the bat is disgusting.  I think the real winners with this are going to be Terminators (either variety) and Assault Marines with jump packs.

Regular terminators are versatile - and god help you if they get into cover and you have to shift them.  Assault terminators love showing up nearby, though if you're going hammer-heavy you may want a Chaplain or something else to give you some re-rolls.

3) Knights - Mixed Feelings
Turns out that Thunder Hammer assault terminators are rough on knights, especially if he has some hot dice on the saves.  That being said, the thermal cannon was a bit underwhelming - then again, I didn't have great targets for it this game; the razorback managed to make saves and otherwise I killed a few terminators.

That being said, the ability to walk out of combat, shoot, and assault again make knights stupid mobile and productive.  Which frankly, they need to be, since that one was almost 500 points.

4) Khorne Dogs - kinda sad
I'm not super-impressed with them this time around - with the change to WS, they aren't as hard to hit in melee.  I do like the bonus attacks/strength on the charge, but they really need to hang out next to a herald to get the +1S after that.

More testing is needed, but I'm not as psyched about them as I was in 7th.  Then again, I was also fighting power armor marines with a decent volume of attacks.

5) Foetid Bloat Drones - Mainstays
They're mobile, hard to hit, and durable.  I'd have a hard time leaving home without these or Helldrakes for the mobility.

Up Next
I expect the release of the Chaos codex and the new SM book will shake things up a bit.  I like the versatility of Chaos Undecided, though I'm thinking about a Sorcerer on a Disc of Tzeentch - things like Warptime are silly, and the extra-heretical part of me really, really wishes I could use Warptime on a Bloodthirster - but I'll have to settle for using it on a Hellbrute or Maulerfriend.

*I'm assuming we did the deep-strike reserves correctly - if deploying a squad in a transport counts as placing one unit on the field, I'm assuming it's the same for reserves, and that's how we agreed to play it.  I should probably RTFM or something to be sure, but it seemed logical at the time.