Death Guard - First Game in, First Impressions

 I threw dice with the new book.  Unlike 95% of the community, I didn't drop Mortarion on game one.  I hit up an old buddy's Black Templar.  My list was a little something like this -

Mortarion's Anvil - Battalion

Winged Demon Prince - 2x Claws, Warlord - Gloaming Bloat, Warp Hive, psychic power - Putrescent Vitality

Malignant Plague Caster - Gift of Plagues, Miasma of Pestilence

5 Deathshroud Terminators

2x5 Blightlord Terminators - Flail, Blight Launcher

Plague Surgeon - Fugaris' helm

Foul Blight Spawn - Revolting Stench Vats

Helbrute - Multi melta, missile launcher

Helbrute - Multi melta, fist, combi-bolter

2x5 Plague Marines - blight launcher

2x Pox Walker Blobs

2x Bloat Drones w/ Flesh Mowers

BLACK TEMPLARS at a Glance

Primaris Biker Chaplain

Grimaldus

Primaris Techmarine (master of the forge, relic of 4++ invuln for a turn)

Blob of Hammer/Shield Assault Terminators

Apothecary (WL trait for free revives)

Blob of storm shield vanguard vets w/ a few hammers and a Sword of Judgment

2x MM/bolter Venerable Dreads, Ironclad w/ Hurricane Bolter, 2x Hunter-killer missiles

3x Crusader Squads to babysit objectives

Suppressor Squad

2x Outrider Squads

IMPRESSIONS

OVERALL - This army is slow, durable, and requires careful deployment - unless you're deep-striking or coming in from strategic reserves, you're not going to go that far.  We don't have a lot of shooting or long-range assets, so be prepared to protect those.  Being tough doesn't mean you break cover and walk in the open, daring the enemy to attack you.  2+ saves like cover just like everyone else.

By Assets

Demon Prince - I realize claws are now AP-1; I realized this when I charged storm shield terminators.  I'm lucky I'm not dead.  The sword is 100% the way to go on these guys.  Wings are expensive, but I like the FLY keyword.

Psychic Powers - Miasma's basically an auto-take.  Gift of Plagues depends on your warlord traits, but debuff contagion auras (and Flash Outbreak) along with this are dumb.  Gift of Plagues can do work even as turns tick over, since debuffs are great!

Blightlords - mine are modeled with axes.  I am still reasonably pleased with axes - S6, AP-2 means I'm hitting on 3s and wounding on re-rolling 2s vs most infantry and swords are 3's and 3's.  S6 also lets me grind at vehicles in a pinch.  I'll see if I keep that opinion, but the flail and the blight launcher are obvious keeps.  I'd considered a combi-weapon or two, but didn't miss it much - we're so slow that you might get one productive melta shot, or a turn or two of plasma plinking at best.

Deathshroud - If you're going to bring a brick of terminators and characters, you're bringing a unit of these.  They're murder, though the spray pistols need contagions to kick in for that S3 to be meaningful.  No one really wants to get close to them.

Pox Walkers - if you've got enough other threats out there, people probably aren't going to waste the volume of fire necessary to kill 15-20 of these guys off an objective.  If you're going to tie up stuff, don't be like me and derp out and forget dreadnoughts with hurricane bolters can fire those in assault.

Plague Surgeon - take Fugaris' helm.  That is all.  Seriously.  

Foul Blightspawn - take revolting stench vats.  Seriously.  A 6" no-charge bubble is a lot more user-friendly and harder to avoid than a 3" targeting "you fight last" power.  The spray is a mop-up ability here.

Helbrutes - we get our big guns where we can.  I think most of my lists will start with either a couple of these or a couple Blight Haulers.  These things get terrifying if someone chips a wound off them; Fire Fever means I'm hitting on 2s (and possibly re-rolling 1s) then I'm wounding most armor on a 2 (and re-rolling 1s if wounded).  I really don't care if I have to put a combi-bolter into an armored target for those bonuses.  One of mine got popped early after whiffing, and another smoked the Ironclad, then almost beat a second dread to death (..before someone made a couple 6s to shrug).

Bloat Drones - Our book needs mobility badly - this is an option.  Again, if I'm not taking Blight Haulers, I'm probably take a couple of these.  The heavy blight launcher isn't bad per se, but the flesh mower is just terrifying.  One guy tanked dreadnought multi-meltas (more luck than anything else) and then delayed them; another used the "eat guys for wounds" stratagem, and managed to do some solid work and last the game.  Any sane opponent with guns is going to do their level best to murder these to deny you options.

Hilariously, bloat drones are allergic to AP-1 bolt guns, or 1d6 damage weapons.  

Death Guard - First Impressions of Plague Companies

 

So, we have a pretty solid new codex - and unlike, say, most other books, we're just one chapter.  However, we have seven options for companies.  Each plague company offers us a unique warlord trait, a relic, and stratagem.

So, what do we want to do with these?  Note we already have some solid warlord traits and relics, so you may just be looking at stratagems.

First Company - The Harbingers

SHORT VERSION - The Harbingers are melee-oriented, with a stratagem for helping Pox Walkers and a so-so relic and warlord trait.

LONG VERSION

The meat here is The Wrathful Dead - for a CP, your poxwalkers re-roll hits.  Throw that on top of the Mutant Straint stratagem, and suddenly you're fishing for 6s to hit for mortal wounds with poxwalker mobs.

The Warlord trait is 'eh' at best - it's not bad if you're around multiple minimum-sized units since stuff in Contagion Range (other than vehicles) takes mortal wounds in the opponent's movement phase on 4+s.  You can luck out and drop d3 mortals.

Infected Remains is gimmicky at best - your relic-bearer drops it on an objective marker, which then has a contagion aura as long as the character lives.  Not saying this can't be useful, but we've got a ton of cool relics.

Second Company - The Inexorable

SHORT VERSION - This company's pretty utilitarian; the stratagem is solid for a melee army.  The warlord trait is neat if you're helping out plague marines, and the relic can actually help heal vehicles - which is kinda rare for this book.  (We're more about just not dying, rather than getting better.)

LONG VERSION

Ferric Miasma is 1CP for a flat -2 to charge - you REALLY get to laugh at stuff trying to charge you from deep strike; hitting a 9 isn't bad, but hitting 11s is...unlikely.  Anyone with charge buffs will need them, and anyone without them is in some shape.

The Warlord Trait is useful IF you tech into a quantity of low AP attacks - it's an aura of +1AP equal to your contagion range.  Terminators don't really care about it, but other stuff does.  It's build-specific, but don't keep The Inexorable for just plague marines.

The Leechspore Casket is...I dunno.  You want someone already killy to carry it, and they need to punch models to death in order to heal a vehicle for some wounds.  If you're going to support some front-line demon engines (anything other than your mortars, really) it's an option, but maybe not the first option.

Third Company - Mortarion's Anvil

SHORT VERSION - This has a hilarious durability warlord trait, a defensive strategem, and a hard-to-fight relic.

LONG VERSION

Gloaming Bloat is just sick - it turns off re-rolls to hit and wound in Contagion Range.  You really want to bring Gift of Plagues for a boost to that range.

Relaptic Assault is a neat stratagem because it's going to make folks be careful about positioning - if you've got multiple units next to each other, it's going to be very hard for them to just hit one in assault.

The Warp Insect Hive is good for full hit/wound re-rolls.  A Demon Prince with two claws and Virulent Fever would like this.  A LOT.

Fourth Company - The Wretched

SHORT VERSION - The stratagem and warlord trait aren't terrible utility, but the relic is 'meh' and other stuff has more straightforward utility.

LONG VERSION

You get a Requisition Stratagem - one psyker gets another power, and one free re-roll a turn.  You'll definitely get some economy out of that.  This might let you get away with one psyker.

The Warlord Trait is good for auto-wounds on sixes in contagion range - so it's a turn 2-3 melee buff unless you commit to Gift of Plagues (...which you should.)

Your relic buffs the Pestilential Fallout on a Malignant Plaguecaster.  These guys aren't super durable, and I'd really rather keep 'em away from the front - and real talk, we've got better relics.

Fifth Company - The Poxmongers

SHORT VERSION - Are you leaning into demon engines like the Blight Hauler or Defiler?  Look at these guys.  Otherwise, skip.

LONG VERSION

Your stratagem is all about letting that demon engine fire at point blank range with blast weapons, and a nice +1 to hit as a bonus.  The Defiler and Blight Hauler find this hilarious.

Your Warlord Trait is so-so at best, since it's a leadership debuff and a combat attrition debuff - small beefy units don't care about it, even if we do have a neat -4LD stratagem laying around.

The Relic leans into your demon engines - someone gets a 4++ instead of their 5++.

Sixth Company - The Ferrymen

SHORT VERSION - There's a bonkers warlord trait, a decent buff stratagem for your elites, and a decent relic for your scythe-wielding guys.

LONG VERSION

The Droning is one of the ugliest-looking warlord traits we have - 1/2 movement to enemies in your Contagion Range.  Gift of Contagion is a hard must here, and you need this on a mobile warlord to throw at the enemy - you may lose it (unless it's Mortarion) but you can potential hobble an enemy army for a turn, so there's that.

The stratagem is pretty reasonable - +6" to your FOETIED VIRION (aka - your elite buff guys) auras is a tool you can find a use for - IE, a 9" range for your "you can't fight 'til we're done here" off the Blightbringer is ugly.

The relic isn't quite as insane as some - it's a manreaper that lets you crank three swings on scything swings instead of two, but you also can't dump one of our plague upgrades on it.  Considering our other stuff, eh.  Not too worried, and we have other relics.

Seventh Company - Mortarion's Chosen Sons

SHORT VERSION - Do you like sprays?  Are you bringing lots of Death Shroud?  Then this is your company.

LONG VERSION

The stratagem is pretty specific, and very ugly - plague belchers, spewers, and plaguespurt gauntlets are damage 2.  A unit of five Death Shroud can crank out 6d6 shots (admittedly at S3, but -1T is a thing) and stuff's gonna notice.

The Warlord trait, Nurgle's Fruit, is pretty utilitarian - it turns cover off in Contagion Range.  Not bad, but we're also not the shootiest army - I feel like we can kinda skip this.

Vomitryx is a hilarious-sounding relic - it's a flat 7 shots at AP-3, 2 damage - cool, right?  There is literally only one problem - it replaces a plague sprayer, which means it goes on a Foul Blightspawn, which means it competes with Revolting Stench Vats.  What do you want more?  A really neat flamer, or a an aura of "you didn't charge, you don't fight first" in a slow army. If you're taking two of these guys, maybe this would be cool - but eh.

The Wrapup

Some of these companies lean into certain builds - the first helps your Poxmongers, the Seventh Company is tailor-made for Deathshroud terminators, and the Fifth is all about Demon Engines.  The fourth is...well, it's a plague company.  The remaining ones offer different types of utility, but don't necessarily scream for one type of unit over another.

Death Guard - Picking Through the Plague Marine Datasheet

Options - lots of options

 If you've picked up the new Death Guard book, you may have noticed that the Plague Marine datasheet is a wee bit beefy.  It has lots of options - like, a lot.  A potentially overwhelming number of option.  At this point, my plan is to figure out how I'm going to think about thinking about the datasheet.

Question Zero - Am I taking Plague Marines?

Technically, I don't HAVE to take plague marines - I can take terminators and then take pox walkers or cultists - three terminator squads let me grab three non-plague-marine troop squads, so I could leave these guys at home.  Realistically, you'd taking Pox Walkers for immunity to morale and Objective Secured.

For the purposes of this thought experiment, let's assume the answer is 'yes.'

Question 1 - Small unit or large?

You can take 5-10 guys.  Five-man squads fill out slots, or objective-sit.  If a five-man squad goes into assault, it goes into a fist fight with something it's going in as a mop-up or as part of a group.  My first impression is that the five-man squad should consider a ranged option so they can contribute whenever - also, seriously, Death Guard don't have a lot of guns, so you might as well get that wehere you can.

If you're a larger squad, you've decided you're going to do damage - decide if you want a Rhino, or if you're going to walk up the field.  If you're going to jog up the field, consider guns and a couple melee options.

OVERALL - 5 guys bring a gun, sit on an objective and/or sit behind someone and plink.  10 guys do damage and should realistically kit out for shooting and fighting.

Question 2 - Which guns?

We have access to three types of guns - plasma guns, blight launchers, and meltaguns.  The meltaguns look attractive on a squad of 10 that are moving upfield to attack - you might have to crack armor open, and you might want to slag a monster.

The plasma gun and blight launcher are a little bit closer.  The blight launcher beats the plasma gun for damage, plasma gets it in rate of fire.  I'm a little split, as earlier in the game S7 on a ranged weapon is bound to do more damage early on.  Note that the champ can still take a plasma gun as well, so you can double up on aplsma.

I feel like the plague belcher is definitely an option, but I'd rather focus on what we need help with - the meltagun seems like a more useful option for a couple points.  The plague spewer is I guess an option for a rhino-mounted squad, but if it gets popped early you're choosing between shooting and running since it's heavy. (IE - this is the flamer vs. heavy flamer comparison on a squad that cranks out a bunch of WS3+, AP-1 melee attacks against targets at -1 toughness...)

OVERALL - Realistically, a 5-man squad is a toss-up between the blight launcher and a plasma gun or two, or a double plasma gun.  10 guys should think about the meltagun since they're definitely trying to move and get close.

Question 3 - Sarge's Melee Options

Every squad's got a champ.  The champ can bring melee stuff in addition to that potential plasma gun.

Champ can bring one of three melee weapons - the bog-standard plague knife, a daemonic plague blade, or a power fist.  The plague knife is free, and is AP-1.  The daemonic plague blade picks up a +1S bonus, and appears to be free as well unless it gets FAQ'd, so you definitely take that.  The only real question is "do I pay 10 points for a powerfist."

If you're babysitting the backfield, you skip the 'fist.

If you're moving upfield, consider the fist.  There's very little T9 in the game, and with the Contagions of Nurgle ability you're throwing S8 vs T7 max 99.9% of the time.  As long as you hit with those swings, someone's gonna feel it.

Question 4 - The squad's melee options

Now, it gets interesting.  The squad can take several noteworthy melee options - the flail of corruption, the great plague cleaver, and the mace of contagion (and bubotic axe pair).  Hello, analysis.  These all cost about the same; the mace/axe is ~2pts cheaper.

The Short Version - the cleaver has a chance to spike damage vs. vehicles, and if you bring a nice to-hit buff (hello, Mr. Tallyman) and really need anti-vehicle work, consider the cleaver.

THE LONG VERSION - MATH AHEAD

The Flail of Corruption - S5, AP-2, 2 Damage - swings 2x per attack, so 4 attacks on a plague marine

The Great Plague Cleaver - S8, Ap-3, D6 damage, -1 to hit

The Mace of Contagion - S6, AP-1, 3 damage, -1 to hit

Bubotic Axe - S6, AP-2, 1 damage

So again, the question here is - what do we want to kill?  You've already got a bunch of guys with 2 attacks on WS3+, AP-1, S4, -1T (so T4 infantry are taking wounds on 3+.)

Our concern is going to be heavy infantry (like 2-3W beefy melee guys, IE Terminators or Ogryn) and vehicles.  Part of this concern is going to be what else is in the army - see the meltagun argument.

VS T4-5 heavy infantry -

FLAIL - 2.6 hits > 1.7 wounds > 3.5 damage on average - you'll get a couple 2W guys, or one 3W guy

CLEAVER - 1 hit > 0.83 wounds > 2.9 damage on average - you'll probably get the 2W guy, the 3W guy is a 33% miss because of that d6

MACE - 1 hit > 0.66 wounds > 2 damage average - ok, the damage average is weird here, but the AP (which we're not doing here) makes this thing get wonky depending on what you're hitting.

VS Vehicles/Monsters

It gets interesting here, because we've got an S5, an S6, and an S8 weapon.  The cleaver doesn't care because it's always gonna wound on a 3+.  The flail's wound number changes after T6, and the Mace changes after T7.

CLEAVER - 2 Swings > 1 Hit > 0.83 wounds > 2.9 damage

FLAIL

vs. T6 - 4 Swings > 2.67 hits > 1.33 wounds > 2.67 damage

vs. T7+ - 4 Swings > 2.67 hits > 0.88 wounds > 1.78 damage

MACE

vs. T6 - same as vs. infantry; 2 damage average

vs. T7 - 2 swings > 1 hit > 0.5 wounds > 1.5 damage

vs. T8 - 2 swings > 1 hit > 0.33 wounds > 1 damage

So at this point, real talk - the mace is kinda 'meh' - 3 damage is nice, but it's kind of a trap.  I'd rather bring a lot of attacks via the flail, or I'd rather bring the d6 damage and try to spike it.  S8, AP-3 puts the cleaver head and shoulders above the mace in most matchups I can think of.

Question 5 - Icons, etc.

You also have options for the Icon of Despair and Sigil of Decay.  You can technically take both.

The Icon lets you drop a 1d6 in the morale phase, and each enemy you're engaged with eats a 4+ mortal wound.  If you think you're going to stay in the fight for a while, it's an option - but with a 4+, eh.  I feel like I'll spend points elsewhere first.

The Sigil of Decay lets bolt weapons auto-wound on a 6+.  That's legit interesting, but only on a max squad - it could help with chip damage in the first few turns vs T5+ targets, and realistically, any time you skip rolling dice for guaranteed results is good.

Wrap-up - What do squads look like?

Ok, we've considered guns, we've considered melee weapons - now what does all this analysis look like?

The 5-man squads are building blocks; the 10-man squads are things you build around as a theme.

5-man squads

Keep it simple, keep it cheap - grab a gun or two, sit in the back.  Score.  Try not to die or look too threatening.

5 guys, 2 plasma guns - 130 points - you bring this when you're more likely to sit near a re-roll bubble for a couple turns, but it's solid firepower.

5 guys, blight launcher - 120 points - it's cheap, it can contribute.  It doesn't care about babysitters, and it's a little more reliable at popping 2-wound infantry.

Larger Squads

Real talk - go 10 guys for the max options, or go with a weird mix of stuff.  You want to fight, but you also want to be realistic about just how much you can dictate your fight.  Consider a Rhino as well.

10 marines, fist on sarge, 2 flails, 2 meltaguns - 250pts - advance, try to melta armor, then try to charge in and wreck whatever you can.  It's versatile, it's nasty, it'll leave a mark but man you're light on range.

10 marines, fist on sarge, 2 cleavers, 2 blight launchers - 250pts - your ranged weapons are anti-infantry / able to soften up crap, and your other stuff is decent for killing anything else in melee.

7 Marines - Fist on Sarge, Flail, meltagun - 177pts - eh, 7-8ish dudes is a weird spot, but that's what squads look like.  This kind of loadout is a swiss army tool; you've got anti-armor shooting, but maybe not the ability to spike fresh armor off the shot/charge.

10-man Shooty - Plasma on sarge, 2 plasma guns, sigil of decay - 250pts - ok, real talk here - this is a HUGE commitment for a squad that exists to just dump dice at 24."  Can you do it?  Yeah, sure.  I'm not super convinced you should.  Also, real talk, it needs one of your precious LORDS for a re-roll 1 aura to make the plasma worth it.

Conclusions

The 5-man babysitter squads are definitely a solid objective-holder / tool squad.  The 10-man squads are beefy as hell, but are bound to compete with our solid Terminator options.  I'm not quite 1000% sold on larger squads, but I feel like they're worth a test.

The New Death Guard - And Rampant Speculation For Chaos Space Marines Changes

So, the Death Guard book hit the streets today. There are tons of folks who've already posted thoughts on it, and I'll get around to that. First off, though, I'm going to take a minute and speculate on what this might mean for the other chaos fellas. Remember, Death Guard may have a lot of special toys, but they've also got a bunch of units in common with regular Chaos Marines and other stuff. Some of these changes look pretty solid, and some others might be cause for concern. Also, some just plain confuse me.

The Good 

Demon Engines - I would expect them to go to WS/BS3+ across the board. The Lord Discordant may or may not keep his +1 to hit buff at this point; who knows. The Defiler - it got a better gun; flat 3 damage is something. 

 Helbrutes - Note that in an army full of '-1 damage' these guys have it too, but it's called 'Monstrous Resilience' which is pretty neutral. They get another buff in 'Frenzy' - unlike previous iterations where being wounded meant you killed your buddies, being wounded means that you get to re-roll wound rolls of 1. This combines neatly with the 1CP stratagem 'fire frenzy' which is good for +1 to hit and +1 to wound if you shoot everything at the same target. 

 Chaos Spawn - Their random attacks are a little more reliable; it's now 2d3 a model. The interesting thing is this - there's a stratagem, Grandfather's Influence, that grants them Disgustingly Resilient and T6. Makes me wonder if we're going to see similar god-specific stratagems in the new book. I think it's pretty neat. At 23pts a model, it's a reasonable distraction unit - even moreso if you can get some cool buffs out on them.

Miasmic Malignifier - Hear me out - the SM bunker of 'whatever' was so-so, and the Convergence of Dominion is weird to use.  This thing, though?  This thing is pretty solid, pretty cheap, and pretty usable.  The only potential problem is slapping it in a useful spot on a table.  

Foetid Virion - hey, you have lots of buff characters - and now you get 3 per Elite slot.  Rules like these help with army building, and it continues things we saw with Crypteks in the necron book.

The Bad 

Cultists - Hoo boy. Odds are that you have a pile of these guys laying around. They take a couple hits in the Death Guard book - you have to take BUBONIC ASTARTES units alongside these guys, so you can't just bring Demon Engines and cultists. (Not really a problem since this book's good, but worth noting.) Also, they lost Objective Secured. Really, what this does is mean that a big unit can't take a hit from a few guys and still hold an objective - it hurts, but cultists aren't known for sticking around long when bullets and blades start flying. 

 Lord Restrictions - it's not necessarily bad, but expect restrictions similar to marines and company with respect to HQs.  You get one LORD OF THE DEATH GUARD per detachment.  I mean, you were gonna be bringing psykers for our sweet, sweet powers anyway.  Regular Chaos Marines are bound to have solid variety in the the HQs.

Possessed - So, the downside is that they take 2 slots in a Land Raider, and don't fit in a Rhino.  I'd expect errata extending this to the Forge World transports as well.  So long as Warp Time remains a thing, I'm not sure if regular marines will worry as much.

The Ugly 

Plague Marine / Blight Lord Options - it seriously looks like some of the weapon options got dictated by the kits. I'm not sure what's up with this. I feel like someone, somewhere, was like "Oh, I bet it'll be easier if the weapon options are identical to the kit!" except having one of each combi-weapon on a blightlord squad is just weird - and there's not enough of eithr melee option to kit a full 5 out with each.  It's a little nonsensical.

  The Plague Marine squad is just kinda confusing, and is going to take a minute to sort through, especially if you want a melee squad.  There's a bunch of 1-per-5, so you could somehow end up with a 10-man squad that carried two plague cleavers, two flails, two paired plague knives, two meltaguns, a sigil of decay/boltgun, and a sarge with fist and daemonic plague knife.  (Good luck pulling casualties or rolling melee hits in a reasonable amount of time.)

Splitting Chaos Predator Datasheets - I don't see the relevance myself, but whatever.  I guess it matters if you somehow wanted to run 3 of each.

Overall

This seems like a net positive at first glance for Chaos Marines down the road - some of our stuff is bound to get tweaked, the only thing that really confuses me is the "ooh, maybe let's make options similar to what's in the box, except not always!"  Thank the gods that logic passed the Devastators by, because that would probably punt devs HARD.

More on Iron Hands and 9th - Post 7 Jan Points Tweaks

 

I've had some time to play around with the sons of Ferrus Manus and test some of my initial impressions.  We've also had a points adjustment since then, and a forge world index drop.

The question, then, is what do we do better than other marines, and what's worth building around?  Also, are there things that just look neat, but are somehow not quite as cool for us as others?  And, finally, do we have some hilarious tricks or things?

The Iron Father

Post 7 Jan FAQ, he's 160 points.  That's a significant increase over a regular techmarine, and really, you're paying for his 5++ invuln save bubble.  Unless you're going to push a bunch of Intercessors up the table, I don't think he's really worth it.  Yes, he gives +1 to hit out more freely, but seriously, you've got re-rolls for CORE stuff already.

MOVING OUT - Build around him, or leave at home.

The Relic Character Contemptor of Dakka

Would you like to bury a bunch of heavy weapons on a character that really does NOT care about snipers?  For a little over 200 points and 2-3 CP, you can bring the sniper dreadnought from hell.  Take a Relic Contemptor, drop a pair of twin-las on it, and buy a Cyclone missile launcher for good measure.  Pay a second CP (you already paid one for Martial Legacy) for March of the Ancients, and since he's 9W, he just needs to hang back for Look Out, Sir.  If you REALLY want to have fun, give him the Warlord Trait 'targeting protocols' - he can hand out a re-roll to hit, a re-roll to wound, and a re-roll to damage.

He's not CORE, but you might have a techmarine nearby for a +1 to hit, or you might just buff yourself.  You're kicking out six shots that are probably wounding on a 3-4 and then doing 1d6 damage per shot.  It's a chunk of points, but unless you throw him out too far forward or just get your screens nuked, this guy is bound to have a few turns of ugly, ugly shooting.

MOVING OUT - not for smaller point games, but it's a bloody productive model.

Grav Devastators in Drop Pods

Seriously, the ability to drop in and drop a bucket of accurate dice is solid.  24" is "you have to hide out of LOS, you aren't screening this out" range.  If this unit lives, you can pay a CP and promptly go back into the devastator doctrine.

I suppose you could lean into drop-pod multi-melta if you wanted to, but that seems like overkill and you have other ways to deliver that capability (like, say, Eradicators and possibly strategic reserves).

I suppose you could also use traditional long-range devastators and leverage the "revert to devastator doctrine" stratagem as well, but grav is tasty and demands a response.

MOVING OUT - it's just shy of 200pts and a heavy support slot, and it's not hard to fit into a build.

On Dreadnoughts

Real talk here - I think it's safe to say we do the Redemptor very well; a 6+ shrug on wounds and no stat degradation until we're on 3 wounds remaining?  Come on.  They're  big, they hit hard, and I'm having a hard time not putting 1-2 in my list before looking elsewhere.  They're even more fun when you get a Librarian with Psychic Fortress Up, because now you've got a tasty 5++ save.

Venerable dreadnoughts are in a different spot - 2+ to hit is pretty awesome, but the 6+ shrug they come with is redundant, and they don't degrade.  We lose a touch of efficiency here, but a venerable dread is still a bargain-bin pick for March of the Ancients and guns.

The other dreadnoughts skip out on our ability to basically ignore degrading stats, but they're good with the 6+ FNP.   The core advantage they have is weapons choices - and really, the only standouts are the twin lascannon and the multi-melta.  You trade out a LOT of volume for these - a dozen S6 shots and another 8 at S5, then your small arms fire and possibly that Icarus pod (because at 5pts, why not.)

The Ironclad is worth mentioning because T8 is significant - small arms and most melee shifts to 6+ to wound, and most heavy weapons are on 4+ to wound now.

MOVING OUT - Redemptors are awesome.  It's hard to say not to them because we make them shine.  The biggest competitor is the relic contemptor sniper build mentioned above.

On the Apothecary

So, these guys got a nice buff.  The thing is, we already have half of what an apothecary offers - a 6+ shrug.  So, we bring one to resurrect guys.  A Chief Apothecary is around 100pts and a warlord trait (probably means he's your warlord, and you're spending a CP to buff someone else, or he's getting his trait for a CP).  If you didn't bring a beefy unit of special characters, skip this guy - you want to bring back something like Terminators, Aggressors, Bladeguard Veterans, Eradicators or something else tasty.

If you're bringing him to bring back intercessors, think about what you'd get out of 5 more intercessors on the field right away.

MOVING OUT - Much as I like this model, Iron Hands really want more of a plan for it since the 6+ shrug aura is redundant.

Warlord Traits / Relics of Note

Don't neglect Student of History - it's not really killy by itself, but Paragon of Iron for a more killy trait (like Sword of the Imperium) along with this lets your Warlord back out of combat on your opponents turn, letting you shoot things and then charge or relocate.

Sword the Imperium + Axe of Medusa = bargain thunder hammer on the charge; you get an S8, AP-3 3 damage power axe that hits on 2s.

If you really want to try to make a Repulsor Executioner work (or some other weird, large FW tank) consider a Techmarine with the Iron Stone and Targeting Protocols; -1 damage from your relic, +1BS and a re-roll to hit, wound, and damage is tasty.  It's also a lot of eggs in one basket.

Aegis Ferrum + The Flesh is Weak-- if you really, really, REALLY have to be tanky, you can stack +1W, -1 damage, and a 5+ shrug (that goes to 4+ via stratagem) on a model.  This gets kinda dumb on bike characters (T6, W7 biker captain, T6, W8 biker primaris chaplain) and the captain in gravis armor (T6, W8).  Make sure your character can already do damage with his existing weapons, though.  (Hammer/shield bike, Gravis say "HI!" and then promptly want to beat the hell out of you.)

On Flyers

Look, even though we have a 6+ shrug, I really can't bring myself to recommend more than 0-2 flyers in a list at any given moment.  Marine flyers are a touch flimsy - best-case scenario is they fly across the board, dump bullets into a hard-to-see target, and then get dead.

MOVING OUT - I'll bring them occasionally for fun, but anyone with guns is going to spike them as hard as they can, just because you can take out a lot of firepower for the wounds.  170-220pts for 10W on a T6-T7 chassis that's in short-to-medium range just isn't that hot, even with a -1 to hit.