tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111360555104006558.post993664394846188170..comments2024-01-03T10:58:16.165-06:00Comments on Spite for the Dice Gods: Engage Brain before Playing, and newer Eldar thoughtsRaptor1313http://www.blogger.com/profile/16909802419382710809noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111360555104006558.post-75683976266516044572009-07-19T20:26:14.087-05:002009-07-19T20:26:14.087-05:00In an 1850, I managed to cram 4 Serpents (2 DA, 2 ...In an 1850, I managed to cram 4 Serpents (2 DA, 2 Dragon), a Prism, and 2 Dakka-Falcons in there along with 2 Shuriken-Vypers, just to get a count up there.<br /><br />I suppose in larger games you could go for the BL vypers, but I think if I'm going to dedicate Vypers to anti-tank duty, I'm like as not to take the plunge and get the Bright Lance, even if it does mean I'm rolling a 75 point Vyper out.<br /><br />Then again, the bigger a gun you put on a Vyper, the more likely it is that the enemy will think "Ah, but for a little bit of gunfire, I can SURELY kill some of his firepower." I mean, the average autocannon hit has a decent chance of maiming a Vyper. I'm sure there's a saturation level out there, but I'm not sure if it's really that efficient.<br /><br />I mean, two BL Vypers will connect with 2 Bright Lances 25% of the time, a single one 50% of the time, and miss both 25% of the time. The average TL-BL/Cannon Serpent costs me 145, and has one lance. If I'm not squadding the Vypers, I can split their fire, or just focus it, since I'll probably need to do that as Lances are just not THAT effective at killing armor.<br /><br />However, the Vypers are significantly easier to kill. In a squad, you can pawn off the odd hit here and there on to a single 'Ablative' vyper, but AV10 is vulnerable enough to high rate-of-fire weapons like Autocannons to make the Squadron rules an easier way to harm multiple vehicles.<br /><br />I think in Apocalypse, without the Force Org Chart, I'd look at multiple Vyper squads (or in similar situations) just to boost their survivabilty.Raptor1313https://www.blogger.com/profile/16909802419382710809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111360555104006558.post-75028810808407370542009-07-19T19:54:02.587-05:002009-07-19T19:54:02.587-05:00I'm pretty much in full agreement with you, al...I'm pretty much in full agreement with you, although I think the EML and Lance Vypers can prove valuable, this is only really the case in larger games where you hopefully have enough Grav Tanks to make targetting the Snypers ludicrous. Obviously if playing an all-Jetbike list, Vypers provide important anti-heavy armour capability...but why aren't you using Falcons? Even then a Jetlock Cuncil should prove sufficient anti-tank for most games. Two is even better.TheKing Elessarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04981821487098781957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111360555104006558.post-64411635274977893842009-07-19T13:21:59.725-05:002009-07-19T13:21:59.725-05:00The problem with the EML and Vypers is that you ge...The problem with the EML and Vypers is that you get just one BS3 shot. <br /><br />My gut suggests Vypers go well with high rate of fire weaponry to go with the low BS. I think the other step is minimizing the cost of the Vyper. AV 10 open-topped just does not last, and it's more a matter of if you're shooint at the enemy he can shoot at you.<br /><br />So, for the EML, you're looking at a 65 point vyper. It can drop wounds on monstrous creatures, and it can attempt to down light armor. It has a nominal ability to damage infantry with the plasma missile, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a great recourse. Plus, at BS3, it really kind of wnats guide.<br /><br />So, in general, I think I'd have to roll with the higher-rate-of-fire weapons. S6 isn't as damaging as S8 to transports, but if you're going mech you probably have lances and Fire Dragons, and they're just fine or the heavier armor.Raptor1313https://www.blogger.com/profile/16909802419382710809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111360555104006558.post-72690655496895830762009-07-19T11:22:56.000-05:002009-07-19T11:22:56.000-05:00Good analysis. What are your thoughts on EML Vype...Good analysis. What are your thoughts on EML Vypers?TheKing Elessarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04981821487098781957noreply@blogger.com